FYI, I've downloaded the patch notes as a PDF, and am going to add some personal commentary. I'll link in this thread, and if you're interested, you can provide your own general thoughts on S4, your thoughts on my commentary, etc.
Depending on how my day goes, I'll update this thread with the PDF link shortly.
Further comments about specific items in the spoilers:
Magical Lifesteal
In the true lifesteal tree, Pythagorem's Piece used to be close to core for people looking to build a well-rounded lifesteal item. It's now going to be functional for Supports as well.
Polynomicon and Bancroft's Talon largely remain similar, except Bancroft's not only increases in power as you get damaged, the lifesteal goes up, to try to keep you alive. This is key for gods that unleash their deadliest abilities while standing still and doing DoT damage. So, basically it's still Anubis and Hades, and you'd consider this a general buff for them.
The new "Book of the Dead" is a luxury item (3,000 gold), with a weird passive that doesn't seem to fit anywhere that well. The requirement for you to hit an enemy first while you're at full health can screw you over, preventing you from getting any benefit (as it's generally pretty easy for enemies to confirm damage from range). If they made some adjustments (even higher health, or higher lifesteal...or perhaps the shield persists)...something, it would be better. As it is, gaining that health shield...well if you're undamaged, you might not even use that shield, and the lifesteal is doing nothing for you. Just don't see its use at this point, especially for the price.
Magical Penetration
Divine Ruin is seeing a nice damage buff while losing the lifesteal...and remaining as a strong anti-heal. This should be a solid pickup when facing any healing, and the 15 flat pen is huge if you're facing mages who don't build any protection.
With the change to Chronos' Pendant, we might see more use of the smaller CDR items...such as the adjusted (and way cheaper) Spear of Desolation. 2,700 gold for 70 power, 20 flat pen, and 10% CDR, this might actually be enough (with 1 other flat pen item) to do damage to most squishies, possibly allowing you not to build Obsidian Shard, which got a price increase. But we'll need to look at all CDR as a group.
Magical Power & Magical Protection
So, these are mage/guardian direct counters to other magical damage.
The new Stone of Binding is a neat bridge item (1,700 gold) with a small amount of power, 30 balanced protections, and 10% CDR...the passive is definitely helpful for any god that has hard CC in their kit, and places a 10 pen buff on all close allies. So...provides cheap & easy CDR, with a group mentality. See it as an early Guardian purchase against an aggressive Duo where both physical and magical protection is nice, transitioning not too badly in the mid-game to help a bit with fights. Sell late for something like Mantle of Discord, perhaps.
Stone of Fal, on the other hand, is just...not enough. 2,900 gold means probably late game, if you're facing a god like Scylla where the protection will help and you can block a good chunk of her ult. Otherwise, it's pretty meh.
Celestial Legion Helm's change is interesting. If they can tweak specific healing gods enough ( Hel in particular), I would love love love to see bruiser healing mages with tons of utility. See this potentially being used by Hel, possibly Ra (but want him to go more damage-based personally), Sylvanus and Terra.
Jade Emperor's Crown is a cheap, almost bridge item (2,150 gold) since reducing 30 physical power will have good effect early game, but not so much late. Maybe see if they have a physical ADC, Mid, and Jungler, where the Support would see a decent amount while rotating.
I'll skip over Chronos and create a separate topic specifically for that...and I'll continue this later...
Magical Power & Health
Gem of Isolation, despite the loss of mana, remains largely the same for me. It's a nice late-game pickup for added control, used pretty much for specific Guardians, and, yes Ducks, Ah Puch (I'm sold).
Ethereal Staff is now very interesting at 2,900 gold. You peeps realize this is basically a better, higher utility, lower cost version of Soul Reaver, right? Reaver is 10% of one god's max health, with a CD of 40 seconds...and this is 5% PER GOD PER ABILITY...I don't see any wording about CD. Add the health for survivability and some CCR, and you've got yourself a solid, solid item. See this moving toward being core in most mages and aggressive Guardians that used to like picking up Soul Reaver. I don't get what Hi-Rez is doing on this one...
Rod of Asclepius will remain as a solid choice for all healers, especially mages that have little in the way of escapes. This shift to in-combat enhancement makes me think we might start seeing Support Healing Mages building at least partially tanky...I think that's what Hi-Rez is looking to do...give more options that way if people want to make it work.
Let me stop for a second and consider core items for a Healing Mage Support... Shoes of Focus or Reinforced Shoes, Stone of Binding (the 10% CDR, protections and team pen buff), Rod of Asclepius as core...additional items depending might include Spirit Robe, Ritual Dagger, Breastplate of Valor / Genji's Guard, Shogun's Kusari (attack speed aura for the ADC), Shield of Regrowth. That doesn't seem all that bad...maybe not a lot of damage in there, but a TON of utility. I dunno, if they can put healers in the right area (definitely needs adjustment right now, maybe higher base damage on abilities with low scaling), it can open a pathway.
As for Telkhines Ring, that's the item Sol and Chronos should absolutely get, as the power buff will really help their ability use as well. They lose the Fatalis effect from their kits, but I don't see them purchasing the item to compensate. Pretty simple and straightforward.
Physical Lifesteal
Soul Eater...WTF? I expect some further changes in the next PTS. This is so underwhelming. No power, no attack speed, it's just sustain. Still see Devourer's Gauntlet and Asi being the standard lifesteal items.
Physical Penetration
Again, I like the price increase for the % pen items like Titan's Bane.
Brawler's Beat Stick change is good. Less flat pen. Not convinced on all anti-heal items being so strong with the nerf to all healing, but will remain to be seen how effective lower healing will be without the counters.
REALLY like the change to The Crusher though. Slightly lower power and pen...the passive 1 second CDR is nice but not crucial to me...it's the additional attack speed, when combined with all other stats, that really makes this a neat revised item. This will go really nice with Qin's Sais on hybrid hunters (like Neith, Ullr, Medusa, etc.) and even some Assassins. Could even see picking this up on Bastet.
Physical Power & Physical Protection
E.g. the Physical Solo-laner's counter to Physical Solos.
The new Gladiator's Shield is a sweet bridge item for ability-based Warriors...25 power, 40 physical protection, 10% CDR, and a bit of sustain when using abilities on their enemies...not huge, but for the price, this seems good, and almost a core early-mid item in those specific situations.
Physical Power & Magical Protection
E.g. the Physical Solo-laner's counter to Magical Solos. lol.
Runic Shield and Ancile see minor adjustments, and probably continue to see limited use in very specific situations like when you see a Zhong Kui or Sobek in solo.
Physical Power & Health
Sure, Runeforged Hammer had a very specific function that was difficult to quantify. That said, 10% bonus damage should be easy to have activated, but damn if that doesn't seem like all that much. Say you'd do a solid 400 damage on an ability...now it would be 440...and late game, only applied to YOUR damage, that seems underwhelming.
Blackthorn Hammer has some very, very specific use that might be pretty difficult to pull off effectively...5 second window with 0 mana cost...okay, what if you're damn hurt, but you've got tons of mana still, or the CD on them is longer than 5 seconds? Not helpful. CDs reduced by 3...okay, as long as they're on CD, and they're useful in that situation. CD of 60 seconds for this? Nope.com. I'm not picking this up. I'm sure pros can find use for this, but not me.
Physical Attack Speed
Silverbranch Bow = Slightly weaker magical ADC bridge counter of Ichaival. Good to have the option.
Physical Power & Move Speed
LOVE that this is melee only and officially blocked off from purchase by Hunters. Brilliant.
Like the change to Masamune, and looks like we're seeing a general trend to higher standard move speed than the basic 18%. This is a great item for Warriors in Solo that build on the tankier side but still want the added power. I see myself building this on Odin.
Heartseeker is now a really interesting item for Chaac. The stacks synergize with his passive, and the next axe throw will be a bit more effective to help his damage in the late game, as long as you don't waste the stacks on his heal or whatever. Otherwise, RIP HS w/ my Medusa in Arena.
Physical Power & Crit
WTF w/ Rage. Okay, I'll use in Arena on a hunter maybe if we're ahead. Otherwise, just don't see this being used, especially with the price increase, and the buff to Wind Demon providing more attack speed.
Attack Speed & Crit
Yup, like the added attack speed to Wind Demon, and especially Poisoned Star. Have always liked the idea of Poisoned Star and am excited to see it used a bit more...the lower % crit will be okay when gods have crit in their kits... Jing Wei, Artemis, Hun Batz, Serqet, Ne Zha, etc.
Attack Speed & Move Speed
Like the change to the item formerly known as Ritual Dagger.
Like the change to [[Hastened Fatalis. The fact that it has some pen really changes things for it. Puts it in the same category as Asi, where no power is provided, but can still add to damage output due to the pen. With the seeming increase in higher move speed (with Winged Blade becoming core for many in the latter half of S3), Hunters may need to follow suit, and people might actually consider this a bit more now. That's my feeling anyway.
Witchblade...200 health, 10% move speed, reduced healing (15-45% on basic attacks connecting)...boy, this one fell off. Not gonna see it being used at all is my opinion. They'll need to tweak this some more.
Not gonna really comment on PhysicalProtection & Mana or Magical Protections & Health...everything remains pretty standard, nothing really that new, and the new/revised items are a bit meh.
Magical Protections & Mana
Oni Hunter's Garb sees an interesting if very situational use. However, I'm more interested in Shogun's Kusari. That offensive aura is great if you have multiple basic attackers on your team, especially as you team up to take down objectives, or are in big teamfights. Definitely a solid new option.
Health & HP5
Bye bye Stone of Gaia. What a waste, and it was already bad.
Shield of Regrowth is now very interesting...no power, universal potential use, again supporting my hopes of bruiser utility healing mages.
Just asking, when Freya is ADC and assuming she picks Hastened Fatalis second, after boots.
Which level are you about when you completed fatalis usually ? (Assuming a normal encounter (you don't feed and you are not fed)
Hey Bull, these days (final days of S3), I would tend to aim for Hastened Fatalis first as ADC, as long as I've got a Support with good CC to save my sorry ***. Reason for this is that, with her somewhat weak clear, the added power from Shoes of the Magi or whatever doesn't do nearly as much for her clear potential as additional attack speed providing more hits from Pulse (and Soul Stone is helpful too, which I've been defaulting to more and more).
So, preferred start right now (again S3...won't be so in S4 probably) would be Soul Stone, Ancient Blade, 2 potions. Hopefully those are 2 mana potions, and I don't need health because a kind healing Support like Terra or Guan Yu or Sylvanus can keep me healthy.
Depending on how long I'm able to stay out, the plan would be to back once I had at least 1,600 gold (to buy a full Hastened Fatalis. Better yet would be 1,900 (to get Shoes to help with the slightly lower move speed at that point) or 2,100 (to add on some Wards and Mana Potions at that point).
This is how I'd probably build in Solo lane as well, and just make sure I was playing conservatively close to the tower until I got both level 5 (for ult) and both Hastened Fatalis and T3 shoes.
Does that answer your question, in a different way?
I don't really keep track of what level I am at the time I get certain items (I'm not on-the-fly analytical, and don't often revisit my gameplay (as you know, though your feedback when I did provide your recordings was so awesome), but I'd guess I'm probably level 7 or 8 by the time I'd have both full shoes and Fatalis, unless I'm getting some nice kills from a player even worse than me, lol.
I don't think that question can be answered with an exact, not even with the multiple choices you gave. There's to many factors that can change that'll dictate how fast you'll finish an item, even excluding fed/feeding factors.
Some examples would be:
- Clearing camps?
- Jungles "leeching" gold?
- Support dealing killing blows?
- Type of boots (this case specific)
- Starting gear?
And many more. Also, you didn't mention what gamemode. I'm assuming Conquest.
Boots vary in prices, which creates a rather large possibility for variation in how much gold you'll have at a given time right of the bat.
Players start with a 1.500 gold. Say they'll buy Shoes of Focus, which is an exact 1.500g, they'll need to save up 2140g to afford Hastened Fatalis.
Since most minion waves exist out of 1 brute, 2 melee's and 3 archers, a single minion wave would net 129g. For the sake of making this easier, let's say you last-hit every single one of these, no jungler leeches anything, and the tower doesn't hit any. You also don't take any camps or get any kills/get killed.
Since minion waves spawn every 30 seconds, you'd get 129g every 30 seconds, which results in 258g a minute tops, excluding potential minion travel times. The aforementioned minion wave would also give 165XP, granting 330XP / minute, excl. minion travel times.
2140g divided by 258g equals around 8,2 minutes, so let's take 8 minutes.
8 x 330XP (8 minutes, for 330xp each minute) = 2640XP, which is around level 7.
TL;DR, in most optimal case scenario, you'd finish Hastened Fatalis at round level 7, tops 8.
Edit: Well, it seems that Bran actually answered this as I was typing/researching. Bran probably knows better. Listen to the muffin, bullfrog, listen to it! (But don't eat it.)
You're absolutely right on all that...many variables in a game, but my assumption was Conquest (clarifying that now), and that the Support would likely not last-hit and would have Watcher's Gift and whatnot so not PURPOSEFULLY dealing killing blows. Jungles definitely not leeching, but if they come and help gank, an assist will give me a bit of gold anyway, which is nice.
Clearing camps standard...boars generally when they're up, possibly back harpies or helping with Damage camp when it's up, if I'm on my way back to lane.
Will also clarify that if I DO get Soul Stone instead of Vampiric Shroud, my preference is to get Shoes of Focus for the extra mana and CDR...the lack of pen early is something to deal with, but 10 is relatively minor overall, and since I usually get both Demonic Grip and Spear of the Magus, I don't need the extra pen later in the match.
Too many variables to calculate something like that, but I gave a calculation based on the assumption of 'this & that', which is all described in my comment.
Soul Stone or Vampiric Shroud > Shoes of Focus > Hastened Fatalis would need
(2140g + 800g) / 258g = 2940g / 258g = 11,3 - Let's assume 11 minutes.
11m x 330xp (11 minutes, with 330xp each minute (est.)) = 3630 XP, which is in between level 8 to 9.
So, basically, with the 2 first items and purple buff, she gains 30 penetration early game.
Since magical protection is scaling lower than physical protection on most gods, we can even say that she will be dealing almost TRUE damage after those 2 items.
So my question is ... how fast can she get those 2 items online ?
Oh, and that is without considering your support be picking Stone of Binding.
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