I think I will have to disagree about nemean hide only being good when they have crits. Yes it will do more damage. However if you have like a pretty heavy enemy focused AA team the item becomes great too if you get focussed.
I acctually enjoyed it once during my Chaac game. Doing a lot of damage just because people were hitting me. (Combined with having thorns) did any if them build crit, yes the adc somewhere at the end when it didn't really matter anyway
Nemean isn't really that good outside for dealing with crits or hunters/adcs that haven't built lifesteal. In duel you can build it generally against basic attack gods, but a lot of the time it's better to go for Breastplate of Valor.
While I am thinking about it, I just want to be clear as a general guide. I know certain items are just good on certain gods for passives, like on ares, if I am not mistaken is aura based so there are some aura items that work well on him that synergize with his kit. In general though the main two distinctions when picking items is determining if the god you are using is more ability based or more AA based and basically a lot of the items would be split up in that regard so you wouldn't want to put any item opposite from the type of god you are using unless it just had a passive that was too good to pass up for them right? The quicker I delineate which items fall into those categories it should help me god by god set up builds if that is correct.
Firstly, Breastplate of Valor. In Arena...don't get it. You don't need to spam abilities. You can get some CDR from other items that fit her needs more... Witchblade to counter enemy basic attackers. Shogun's Kusari to help your own basic attacks. Spirit Robe for general protections, CC reduction, and some mitigation. Silent, I feel your aversion to the item in this specific case is spot-on. Gulf, shame on you for suggesting it, unless this was one of your "get Deathbringer" troll comments.
Secondly...and now I'm starting to feel bad like I'm picking on Gulf's suggestions...but I don't necessarily agree with NOT getting Hide of the Urchin against a 4+ phys/magical enemy comp. Again, Silent, your feelings of getting a dual-protection item can be a great idea. It allows you to build a protection item that covers against the 1 enemy of the other damage type, while still getting great protection from the main damage threats. I'm not saying ALWAYS itemize into Urchin...but it's absolutely not a bad idea at all.
I also like that you recognize that some items that provide only one protection type can still have some function against the opposite damage type. A great example of this would be Pestilence. Even though it focuses on magical protection, health provides universal survival function, and the anti-heal has use against hunters building lifesteal, a Hercules or Chaac's self-healing, etc. You can consider something like this in 4+ magical comps, or a 4-physical comp, provided they have lots of gods with healing function in their kits/builds.
Now I'll agree with Gulf some. Bloodforge isn't a worthwhile investment IMO unless you're a god that can get kills fairly easily...either full damage builds, or good base damage/burst. I wouldn't pick it on Bell. Also agree that I'd drop Runeforged Hammer from consideration, and that if you DO choose Blackthorn Hammer, that you should itemize it earlier than later.
And then I'll disagree with Gulf again, at least situationally. I wouldn't consider Ancile for Bell. I also wouldn't necessarily itemize into Void Shield against a 4+ magical comp. Even with the minions and Minotaur doing physical damage, you can just get a Hide of the Urchin or something...the time when I WOULD consider Void against a 4-magical comp would be if I had 3 or 4 physical teammates, where the majority of my team can get some pen function from the passive.
Ichaival would be an interesting situational item in a hybrid basic attack build, especially against multiple basic attacking enemies, and especially against those that are assassins or Ao Kuang and have to get in closer. If you get Ichaival and Midgardian Mail, you're going to absolutely shut down their DPS.
Now, to evaluate the build and situations for myangel.
Your stats: 4/4/22. 27,389 damage, 26,876 taken, 37,828 mitigated. This is good damage and tanking in a general sense.
Now...again, first thing to note is you're playing against really low level competition. This doesn't mean there might not be smurfs, but in general, bleh. Average levels are in the low 20s, and even the SmiteGuru Elo+ rating is in the 1,300s. This makes it difficult to evaluate. Seriously, the Nem, Set, Ao, and Horus didn't build any MS (Set did build, but as item 6 while getting Assassin's blessing first...in Arena!). I still honestly think you should be doing this on your main account. But I digress.
One other thing that made it easy (and partially difficult for you to actually evaluate effectiveness, other than being able to build most protections against physical, is that your Cernunnos and Susano carried the team hard. 12/5/12 and 14/5/17, with around 50k damage for both...followed by Agni with 41k (even though he died more and didn't get the kills as much).
Now...even with 4 enemies with basic attack function, I don't feel that Hide of the Nemean Lion is good in the 2nd spot. I would prioritize Void Shield before it, not only for your damage output, but the other 2 physical gods on your team. Pick up Nemean a bit later, if you choose to go into it.
And finally, in this case, I wouldn't pick Pestilence. Here's where it's really helpful to take a peek at enemy builds during the match. Yes, Horus has some healing function, and so does Set in his ult, and Nemesis with her shield...but no one built into lifesteal, Horus isn't worth building anti-heal IMO, and the AO was building TANKY. This tells you don't worry about counter-building with anti-heal.
Your stats: 3/2/21. 21,016 damage, 29,187 taken, 40,351 mitigated.
Okay, so let's see. Kukulkan had a solid build. Ao Kuang didn't get shoes until item 5, and had an early Obsidian Shard, so bleh. Anubis didn't get Spear of the Magus, and got 4x lifesteal. And he STILL did 42k damage, because level of competition. Neith...lol, I don't even know. Ares...okay, he was fine overall, but I'd have picked Binding earlier, and not bothered with Heartward.
Your Iza, I don't know, but did a hell of a lot of damage cuz...level of competition. Raijin built okay, but I don't like Doom Orb. Amaterasu got no Boots, but a 1st item of Masamune and a 5th item of Hastened Katana, with Rage, Oni Hunter's Garb, and Wind Demon in between, and topped off by making the build Frostalis. My eyes!!! And I know I didn't talk about your team's builds in the last spoiler, but your friend Tron...that's a hideous build for Terra or any god.
As for your build...again, I wouldn't probably get Ancile. I also don't really like Runic Shield but I sort of get the reason against 4 magical. Just don't think it's that worth. Urchin is fine, especially as the one physical god was a damaging god. Genji's Guard, well, I'd have chosen Oni Hunter's Garb personally. And Blackthorn a bit late.
While I am thinking about it, I just want to be clear as a general guide. I know certain items are just good on certain gods for passives, like on ares, if I am not mistaken is aura based so there are some aura items that work well on him that synergize with his kit. In general though the main two distinctions when picking items is determining if the god you are using is more ability based or more AA based and basically a lot of the items would be split up in that regard so you wouldn't want to put any item opposite from the type of god you are using unless it just had a passive that was too good to pass up for them right? The quicker I delineate which items fall into those categories it should help me god by god set up builds if that is correct.
Yes, in a general sense this is exactly it. Understand first what the god's kit does for them.
Are they pure ability, pure basic attack, or have functions for both? If they have functions for both, hybrid items can work well...e.g. The Crusher, which has power pen and a passive for ability use, and power pen and AS for basic attack use.
Are they supportive or damage oriented? Class is obviously the first indication here...Assassins, Mages, and Hunters are damage-focused. Guardians and Warriors are typically tanky. This one crosses the line on either side though, as you can obviously itemize a Support guardian into damage or bruiser items, and some mages and assassins do very well going bruiser (or even full support, a la Ne Zha).
Don't get tricked by passives. They can help, but they're not necessarily an indicator of build direction. Da Ji's passive gives her extra damage on basics. She's an ability user.
Then you can branch out, have fun trying some off-meta items, but only suggest doing so after you've become familiar with the god, and can pick a good time to go for those off-meta builds.
Aa assassins and hunters tend to build crit, but I've seen warriors and ability hunters build it so you should always check what your opponents are building. Add me the next time you're on and I'll see if I can get you a match against more experienced players. My IGN is the same as it is here.
Ok will do. Will hit you up when I am not just kind of killing time when i'm not sure how long i'll be on. I'm not where you and Bran are at but some of the matches are still pretty challenging at lvl 68. I played with Bran, boogie and taco(I think that was who) as Ymir awhile back and it was bad at first adjusting but then I kind of settled in and kind of did palatable if I remember right. that kind of work would definitely be beneficial.
I may sort of take Bran's advice and just do my counter building on my main account, but just for the handful of characters I'm pretty decent to ok with with so far like Bellona, Ymir, Sobek, Vulcan, Terra, and Thor(some time getting some more practice in because it's been so long and I could probably add Hou Yi to that, although he isn't optimal in arena because you really can't get full use of his bouncing projectile)
For gods that i'm still pretty in the dark about like Bakasura, Ares, Fenris, Fafnir and Amaterasu to name a few I'll probably still use my smurf account to get basics down on those I haven't played a lot of or at all to do the same thing with building. Although I don't know how much the process is on counter building when playing hunters/assassins/mages. I have a few ideas but that is deep water for me right now. It seems like with those classes, from what I have seen, they basically just build to their strengths while maybe adding a single item as a consideration for protection at times.
I know there are exceptions to that because I will build a tanky thor if I get into a match and the tank leaves more than a little to be desired. I have also run a hades bruiser build that I think Boogie put up that I thought did pretty well for me as a beginning hades user, even if my execution might not be where it needs to make it most effective.
Yes, in a general sense this is exactly it. Understand first what the god's kit does for them.
Are they pure ability, pure basic attack, or have functions for both? If they have functions for both, hybrid items can work well...e.g. The Crusher, which has power pen and a passive for ability use, and power pen and AS for basic attack use.
Are they supportive or damage oriented? Class is obviously the first indication here...Assassins, Mages, and Hunters are damage-focused. Guardians and Warriors are typically tanky. This one crosses the line on either side though, as you can obviously itemize a Support guardian into damage or bruiser items, and some mages and assassins do very well going bruiser (or even full support, a la Ne Zha).
Don't get tricked by passives. They can help, but they're not necessarily an indicator of build direction. Da Ji's passive gives her extra damage on basics. She's an ability user.
Then you can branch out, have fun trying some off-meta items, but only suggest doing so after you've become familiar with the god, and can pick a good time to go for those off-meta builds.
Thanks for laying it out that way, I know it is more than just AA or ability but it seems like a lot of the gods do fall into an either or category. I just still have a ways to go, I am doing better now but i'll still be looking at some items and thinking that just looking at stats they look like they could fit, a la hydra's and other items working out my off-meta build on Bellona. As I mentioned either in this post or the other one I have right now you are giving feedback on I have been incorporating Qin's and the Exe into the end of some of my builds on Bellona right now because of my comfort level with her now and setting a kind of base level for defensive expectations to function the way I need to for the most part so that I can fit those items in late.
Firstly, Breastplate of Valor. In Arena...don't get it. You don't need to spam abilities. You can get some CDR from other items that fit her needs more... Witchblade to counter enemy basic attackers. Shogun's Kusari to help your own basic attacks. Spirit Robe for general protections, CC reduction, and some mitigation. Silent, I feel your aversion to the item in this specific case is spot-on. Gulf, shame on you for suggesting it, unless this was one of your "get Deathbringer" troll comments.
Secondly...and now I'm starting to feel bad like I'm picking on Gulf's suggestions...but I don't necessarily agree with NOT getting Hide of the Urchin against a 4+ phys/magical enemy comp. Again, Silent, your feelings of getting a dual-protection item can be a great idea. It allows you to build a protection item that covers against the 1 enemy of the other damage type, while still getting great protection from the main damage threats. I'm not saying ALWAYS itemize into Urchin...but it's absolutely not a bad idea at all.
I also like that you recognize that some items that provide only one protection type can still have some function against the opposite damage type. A great example of this would be Pestilence. Even though it focuses on magical protection, health provides universal survival function, and the anti-heal has use against hunters building lifesteal, a Hercules or Chaac's self-healing, etc. You can consider something like this in 4+ magical comps, or a 4-physical comp, provided they have lots of gods with healing function in their kits/builds.
Now I'll agree with Gulf some. Bloodforge isn't a worthwhile investment IMO unless you're a god that can get kills fairly easily...either full damage builds, or good base damage/burst. I wouldn't pick it on Bell. Also agree that I'd drop Runeforged Hammer from consideration, and that if you DO choose Blackthorn Hammer, that you should itemize it earlier than later.
And then I'll disagree with Gulf again, at least situationally. I wouldn't consider Ancile for Bell. I also wouldn't necessarily itemize into Void Shield against a 4+ magical comp. Even with the minions and Minotaur doing physical damage, you can just get a Hide of the Urchin or something...the time when I WOULD consider Void against a 4-magical comp would be if I had 3 or 4 physical teammates, where the majority of my team can get some pen function from the passive.
Ichaival would be an interesting situational item in a hybrid basic attack build, especially against multiple basic attacking enemies, and especially against those that are assassins or Ao Kuang and have to get in closer. If you get Ichaival and Midgardian Mail, you're going to absolutely shut down their DPS.
Now, to evaluate the build and situations for myangel.
Your stats: 4/4/22. 27,389 damage, 26,876 taken, 37,828 mitigated. This is good damage and tanking in a general sense.
Now...again, first thing to note is you're playing against really low level competition. This doesn't mean there might not be smurfs, but in general, bleh. Average levels are in the low 20s, and even the SmiteGuru Elo+ rating is in the 1,300s. This makes it difficult to evaluate. Seriously, the Nem, Set, Ao, and Horus didn't build any MS (Set did build, but as item 6 while getting Assassin's blessing first...in Arena!). I still honestly think you should be doing this on your main account. But I digress.
One other thing that made it easy (and partially difficult for you to actually evaluate effectiveness, other than being able to build most protections against physical, is that your Cernunnos and Susano carried the team hard. 12/5/12 and 14/5/17, with around 50k damage for both...followed by Agni with 41k (even though he died more and didn't get the kills as much).
Now...even with 4 enemies with basic attack function, I don't feel that Hide of the Nemean Lion is good in the 2nd spot. I would prioritize Void Shield before it, not only for your damage output, but the other 2 physical gods on your team. Pick up Nemean a bit later, if you choose to go into it.
And finally, in this case, I wouldn't pick Pestilence. Here's where it's really helpful to take a peek at enemy builds during the match. Yes, Horus has some healing function, and so does Set in his ult, and Nemesis with her shield...but no one built into lifesteal, Horus isn't worth building anti-heal IMO, and the AO was building TANKY. This tells you don't worry about counter-building with anti-heal.
Your stats: 3/2/21. 21,016 damage, 29,187 taken, 40,351 mitigated.
Okay, so let's see. Kukulkan had a solid build. Ao Kuang didn't get shoes until item 5, and had an early Obsidian Shard, so bleh. Anubis didn't get Spear of the Magus, and got 4x lifesteal. And he STILL did 42k damage, because level of competition. Neith...lol, I don't even know. Ares...okay, he was fine overall, but I'd have picked Binding earlier, and not bothered with Heartward.
Your Iza, I don't know, but did a hell of a lot of damage cuz...level of competition. Raijin built okay, but I don't like Doom Orb. Amaterasu got no Boots, but a 1st item of Masamune and a 5th item of Hastened Katana, with Rage, Oni Hunter's Garb, and Wind Demon in between, and topped off by making the build Frostalis. My eyes!!! And I know I didn't talk about your team's builds in the last spoiler, but your friend Tron...that's a hideous build for Terra or any god.
As for your build...again, I wouldn't probably get Ancile. I also don't really like Runic Shield but I sort of get the reason against 4 magical. Just don't think it's that worth. Urchin is fine, especially as the one physical god was a damaging god. Genji's Guard, well, I'd have chosen Oni Hunter's Garb personally. And Blackthorn a bit late.
Kind of short on time so I will hit main points. I will give Blackthorn some consideration early and see how it goes, as a point of reference(even if I have heard it is not really necessary on assassin's) I have used it at the 2 on thor before because I don't like the long wait for Trancendence in arena(I've also tried Talaria boots by themselves or combo'd with heartseaker or if i'm building tanky genji's or another magical protect cooldown item early since they all pretty much have some mp5 built in.)With Bellona and other tanky types I just have had protection drilled in so much in suggestions on tanky builds I don't typically build health so much early in a build unless it has defense except when testing out something like Stone of Gaia which i'd asked you about the other day.
I am slowing getting to where I am choosing other defensive items even when I am not trying to build cooldowns because because if I can build defensively where I see I am hanging in against the other team that allows me to get the last 1-2 items for offense and get my physical power in the 120 or so to 150 or so range where it seems like I can really tee off while tanking and not be a liability to the team as long as I am not like so many arena tanks that just fight with the whole other team until they die or try to escape with like 50 health. With me getting to that point I don't feel the need so much at times to fit those bruiser type items in all the time.
Bloodforge, I like it pretty much for what I was talking about in the paragraph above. between boots and it I can get my physical power in that range I mentioned that seems to be the sweet spot, not too power greedy and not so pitifully weak damage. It's the highest power item for physical gods. The lifesteal and shield are just bonuses to getting me to that power range and letting me do it with one item. I don't count on building it but if gold is flowing freely...
The matches the other day I wasn't so much true item examining but just getting practice with just deciding on a build to counter comp. Since I don't know a lot of the gods abilities/kits when something isn't working then that will make me pay attention to it in game and actually think about it in game and provide the actual experience of "oh, this works this way and this build is not good, maybe I should do this and/or this" I also mentioned a few times with the competition/elo and such I couldn't read too much into it but I am basically making myself relearn some things and actually learn some of the things that I should have learned in the beginning from scratch.
I am kind of opening up to the idea of doing as you suggested with my gods I am comfortable with but doing what I was planning with all the gods I want to use that I have little or now knowledge of how they work.
My friend Tron is basically where I was when I started. I was talking to him about the Chronos Pendant at the 2 and since he had me as another tank it wasn't too bad to off build but only if your other tank is doing their job and he probably didn't want to build anything other than defense that early if he was the only one. He, like i was(and can still be on some things.lol), is really resistant to building other than how it makes sense to him to do so right now. lol. He has some characters he has done pretty well on and he did end up doing 23000 in healing that match so I guess it wasn't all horrible. lol.
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