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Medusa - Getting Everyone Stoned (S5, All Modes, Patch 5.22)

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Smite God: Medusa

Build Guide Discussion (140) More Guides
The Fatal Snake (Conquest / Standard ADC)
The Fatal Snake (Conquest / Standard ADC) The Transcendent Snake (Conquest Mid / Burst Build) Arena Builds

Purchase Order

Qin's High Pen Example Build (Ichaival Optional, Replace Late) Notes Example item progression for a Qin's build. Ichaival is an optional bridge item, and is replaced late-game.

This build provides high, consistent damage against all enemies, with enhanced strength against objectives and tanks. Not recommended if fighting mostly squishy enemy comps.

The last 2 items are situational choices. In this case, Titan's Bane provides incredible penetration against tanks, while Odysseus' Bow brings enhanced teamfight damage and high attack speed to increase Qin's passive procs.

Build Item Devourer's Gauntlet Devourer's Gauntlet
Build Item Ninja Tabi Ninja Tabi
Build Item Ichaival Ichaival
Build Item The Executioner The Executioner
Build Item Qin's Sais Qin's Sais
Build Item Titan's Bane Titan's Bane
Build Item Odysseus' Bow Odysseus' Bow

Standard Starting Items (Rush Tabi if preferred) Notes This standard start will look to get Devourer's Gauntlet online ASAP.

Choose your potions as preferred. Get Baron's Brew if available.

As an alternative, you can rush Boots first, if you have major concerns about enemy mobility and strong early game gank potential.

Build Item Hunter's Blessing Hunter's Blessing
Build Item Spiked Gauntlet Spiked Gauntlet
Build Item Healing Potion Healing Potion
Build Item Healing Potion Healing Potion
Build Item Mana Potion Mana Potion
Build Item Mana Potion Mana Potion

Item #1 Notes Devourer's Gauntlet is the quintessential basic attack hunter's item for early sustain and power.

You can build 2nd (and get Tabi first) if enemy mobility and early gank threat is high.

Build Item Devourer's Gauntlet Devourer's Gauntlet

Item #2 (Choose One) Notes Ninja Tabi is the standard choice, providing a good base of attack speed, as well as some helpful mana in the early game.

Warrior Tabi is a good alternative item when you plan to build plenty of attack speed in the remainder of the build. Can be great early if you plan to get Ichaival after, and want higher ability damage.

Build Item Ninja Tabi Ninja Tabi
Build Item Warrior Tabi Warrior Tabi

Item #2.5 (Optional Bridge) Notes Ichaival is a great, optional bridge item due to the low cost and good 1v1 boxing functionality. At the point you're building this, you're also going to be investing more into Viper Shot, which is a great complement to this item.

If you pick this up, replace it late-game.

Build Item Ichaival Ichaival

Item #3 & 4 (Order As Preferred) Notes Your next 2 items will be The Executioner and Qin's Sais. You can purchase in the order you prefer.

The Executioner provides your base of protection reduction to enhance damage output. If you don't pick up Ichaival, or you want to provide enhanced damage function to other physical teammates, purchase this first.

Qin's Sais is the core of your DPS output, due to the damage proc from the passive. It will provide higher damage compared to The Executioner if you purchase it first, so is helpful if you're boxing the enemy 1v1. The negatives of purchasing this first include no increased damage from physical teammates, and a somewhat higher price (350 gold).

Build Item The Executioner The Executioner
Build Item Qin's Sais Qin's Sais

Items #5-6 (Choose 2) Notes The listed items are all functional. Choose situationally.

Titan's Bane (Anti-Tank): % pen brings high protection shred, helpful against the tankiest enemies and jungle objectives. Pair with an item that has attack speed.

Odysseus' Bow (Teamfight Damage): High attack speed and a passive that hits multiple nearby enemies allows for enhanced teamfight damage. Since it has 0 power or pen, it's best to pair it with an item that has those stats.

Atalanta's Bow (Utility Movement): The all-around stats aren't bad...power, high attack speed, and enhanced move speed. That move speed can be helpful if facing mobile enemies, and can also make you harder to hit while strafing and boxing. Pair with an item that has penetration.

Silverbranch Bow (Enhanced Damage): A non-meta and unique item, it provides good base stats of power, attack speed, and flat pen. With my standard build suggestions, attack speed will overcap to a degree when Viper Shot is activated. This item's passive will give you anywhere from an extra 20-40 power for the duration of that ability.

The Crusher (Enhanced Damage 2): Another item with good base stats, the passive will get good use since all 4 of Medusa's abilities deal damage. The attack speed and pen are helpful against all enemies.

Heartseeker (Enhanced Damage 3): Provides decent power and pen. To get the most out of this item's passive burst damage, you'll want to weave ability use in between a series of basic attacks. Pair with an item that has attack speed.

Bloodforge (Enhanced Survivability): Provides high power, but is chosen more to get additional lifesteal, along with a health shield when getting kills. Pair with an item that has attack speed.

Transcendence (High Power / Mana): This may seem like a weird pick, and is definitely non-meta in the 5th/6th slot. That said, even before getting stacks, it provides high power and a nice base of mana. The stacks should be very easy to get, and the mana is helpful late-game, once your build is complete and you're out for extended times. Pair with an item that provides attack speed and penetration.

Build Item Titan's Bane Titan's Bane
Build Item Odysseus' Bow Odysseus' Bow
Build Item Atalanta's Bow Atalanta's Bow
Build Item Silverbranch Bow Silverbranch Bow
Build Item The Crusher The Crusher
Build Item Heartseeker Heartseeker
Build Item Bloodforge Bloodforge
Build Item Transcendence Transcendence

Relics to Consider Notes Purification Beads and Aegis Amulet are your default relic picks.

Heavenly Wings, especially with the upgrade, is very helpful for boxing or to counter enemy slows.

Phantom Veil is suggested specifically if there is an enemy Odin, to counter Ring of Spears, since she has no leap to escape.

Build Item Purification Beads Purification Beads
Build Item Aegis Amulet Aegis Amulet
Build Item Heavenly Wings Heavenly Wings
Build Item Phantom Veil Phantom Veil

Non-Meta 5 & 6 Combo: Tank/Objective Killer Notes These last 2 items provide high pen, especially helpful against tanks and objectives.

Flat pen from The Crusher helps against all targets, while Titan's Bane's % pen can shred tanky enemy protections, and is also effective against jungle objectives such as the Gold Fury, Fire Giant, and Titan.

Build Item The Crusher The Crusher
Build Item Titan's Bane Titan's Bane

Non-Meta 5 & 6 Combo: Mobility & Survival Notes These last 2 items provide:
  • Increased mobility: ( Atalanta's Bow) now has base MS that can help against mobile enemies. The higher MS, especially at full stacks, allows you to get fairly good use of Sidewinder in a fight.

  • Increased survival: Additional lifesteal and a situational health shield from Bloodforge are helpful, in combination with the MS from Atalanta's, to give you tools to stay alive. The high power is nice.
Consider that this combo provides no additional penetration, so is better against mobile enemies and squishier enemy comps.

Build Item Atalanta's Bow Atalanta's Bow
Build Item Bloodforge Bloodforge

Example Crit Build #1 (High Crit Chance) Notes In this crit build example, Rage is rushed to help build stacks. The Executioner provides the base of protection reduction, and Deathbringer is the standard 2nd crit item.

Poisoned Star as the final item puts crit chance at 85% (which is on the high side). It brings a unique aspect to her kit, as it can really help shift damage away from her due to the passive...the high crit chance gives it basically assured immediate effect against her target.

Build Item Devourer's Gauntlet Devourer's Gauntlet
Build Item Ninja Tabi Ninja Tabi
Build Item Rage Rage
Build Item The Executioner The Executioner
Build Item Deathbringer Deathbringer
Build Item Poisoned Star Poisoned Star

Example Crit Build #2 (Boxing & Mobility) Notes This alternative crit build focuses on getting Poisoned Star online early for boxing potential against her lane opponent.

Deathbringer is again the standard 2nd crit item.

Wind Demon provides additional MS, which works great with Medusa's passive, Sidewinder.

Build Item Devourer's Gauntlet Devourer's Gauntlet
Build Item Warrior Tabi Warrior Tabi
Build Item Poisoned Star Poisoned Star
Build Item The Executioner The Executioner
Build Item Deathbringer Deathbringer
Build Item Wind Demon Wind Demon

Medusa's Skill Order

Viper Shot

Viper Shot

1 X
4 8 11 12 14
Acid Spray

Acid Spray

2 A
1 3 6 7 10
Lacerate

Lacerate

3 B
2 15 16 18 19
Petrify

Petrify

4 Y
5 9 13 17 20

Introduction

Recent updates:

2018/11/27: Guide is updated as of Patch 5.22, "Arrival." Minor adjustments and corrections.

2018/9/27-28: Guide is updated as of Patch 5.18, "Change & Choices." ADC build switched from crit to Qin's, with a variety of optional item suggestions. Special thanks to DV-8 for internal discussion and testing, and Kriega1 for feedback.

Revision History




Duuuuude. W***suuuup? I'm Branmuffin17 (IGN Muffinman17), a SmiteFire moderator and casual SMITE player on PC and PS4. Come check out my 420th fifth major recreational venture outside of my original project, The Overarching Assault Guide. I've created this guide specifically because I was jonesing to make my first hunter guide, and I saw some potential in her, as long as I could get her off the couch.

I'll assume you know the basic gist of gameplay in the various modes, so I won't be teaching or talking much about tickets, rotating, minions, ganja, etc., except in the direct context of Medusa's dank gameplay. If you want the deets on general info, I invite you to cruise on over to my other guides:


The
Overarching
Conquest Guide
The
Overarching
Arena Guide

This is a work in progress, as it should be. Not saying anything about these being her only build options...this is just, like, my opinion, man. I'm always open to new ideas and different approaches.




Although Medusa is a Hunter whose arrows are definitely not blunt, she's a bit less reliant on basic attacks than some, and can be built with emphasis on either abilities or basic attacks.

As such, I'm offering multiple builds for various modes. My Devourer's Gauntlet builds focus on basic attack DPS and boxing as a standard ADC / Carry. My Transcendence builds can be used for either ADC or Mid roles, and focus on earlier and easier waveclear, with damage options centering either around Qin's Sais or crit items.


...... Strengths ......

+ Solid mid/late game damage
+ Sweet early minion wave clear
+ High teamfight potential
+ Can blitz enemies
+ High mobility
... Weaknesses ...

- Gets the mana munchies
- Needs good aim
- Escape can be blocked
- Squishy
- Lazy


Medusa is a strong pick for multiple game modes. Ready to go? Let's light it up!

Abilities



Passive:



Sidewinder
No movement penalty when side-strafing, and half of the movement penalty when moving backward.

Overview: A passive that requires no direct thought, but lends itself to making Medusa a more effective hotboxer. This will not see much benefit except when building increased movespeed, such as through Wind Demon.
Skill #1:



Viper Shot
Medusa shoots out {3/3/3/4/4} vipers in rapid succession that poison the targets hit, dealing damage over time. CD 10 seconds. 10% scaling.

Max this 2nd.

Overview: Her only built-in AS steroid, it adds a strong burst of damage when targeting an individual. Best to use earlier in the fight (due to ticking damage), and when you're able to confirm hits more easily (enemy is stunned from Lacerate, stoned from Petrify, or otherwise CCd from teammates' abilities).

Tip: Remember that you can trigger it early, and it won't activate until you start attacking. You can use it in the fountain for a free charge!

Chronic Viper
Skill #2:



Acid Spray
Medusa spits out acid that damages the first enemy hit, and sprays out acid in a cone behind them. It explodes on statues Medusa has created. CD 14 seconds. 70% scaling.

Max this 1st.

Overview: This is your main source of damage against minion waves, allowing you to hit the entire line if you target the front minion in a wave. Provides good poke potential, as you can hit the minions and do equal damage to enemy gods from the cone spray if they are close and trying to shield themselves from other attacks.

Tip: If you want to be safe (location-wise), if you poke the enemy at the same time you hit the minion wave, you can backpedal while basic attacking, drawing some of the minions toward you for a short time, allowing you to clear the melee minions nearer your tower.

Acid Flashbacks
Skill #3:



Lacerate
Medusa quickly slithers forward, grabbing and slashing the first enemy god she encounters. The slash leaves the enemy god reeling in pain, reducing their healing by 50% for a short time. CD 15 seconds. 80% scaling.

Max this 3rd.

Overview: Offensively, you can use this to initiate and close the gap, or to catch a damaged, fleeing enemy...and you can do this through the minion wave.

Defensively, use it as an escape, but make sure you're not being blocked by an enemy god, or you'll be stopped.

Tip: Activate Viper Shot before initiating with Lacerate. After you connect, your shots will be significantly easier to confirm, adding extra damage with Viper's poison effect.

Laced Fangs
Ultimate:



Petrify
Medusa removes her mask, delivering a powerful blast. Enemies take damage and are stunned for 2 seconds if they are looking at her. Enemies not looking at her take 75% damage and are slowed (20/25/30/35/40%) for 3 seconds. Enemies that are killed by her gaze will turn into a stone statue and remain behind. 90 second CD. 100% scaling.

Level this as it becomes available.

Overview: Devastating if you catch enemies looking at you when it hits. Somewhat mediocre otherwise. Best to use in combo with your other abilities during a teamfight for burst function, or while being chased to freeze them and make an escape.

Secondary, emergency function against anticipated CC. The charge-up makes her immune for a short time, so it can be used (with perfect timing) to counter an ult like Ares' No Escape.

Tip: If you know enemies are approaching around a corner, you can preemptively charge Petrify. If you time it correctly, you'll pop into their view just as it activates, giving them very little time to react.

Stoned

Ability Combos



Some hunters just look to get as many basic hits in as possible, especially when they pack a complete build. This Mary Jane has abilities that enhance or otherwise complement her hotboxing capability.

Her simplest combo with nothing else considered is Viper Shot activation, followed by Lacerate, and then bursting with the actual Viper Shot hits. Late-game when Viper Shot and attack speed is high (and especially with crit items), the burst potential is amazing.

In dangerous situations, you'll usually want to withhold Lacerate to use as a possible escape (or chase if the enemy is on the run). Also, Acid Spray isn't really a boxing ability that you use in combos...save it mostly for waveclear.

Below are some more in-depth combos.


With Petrify Up

With Petrify Down

Conquest / Standard ADC (Build & Gameplay + Relics)



These ADC builds aim to make Medusa a strong mid-to-late-game ADC in the vein of standard Hunters. Her early game will focus mostly on waveclear and safe poke damage. Her late game is when her power comes fully online, especially when comboing with abilities, to provide huge burst potential against squishy target.


Standard Qin's Sais Build




Starting & Core Build Items (Details & Discussion)




Items 5 & 6 (Details & Discussion)



Relics




Relic Options




ADC Starting Process & Early Game


ADC Mid to Late Game


Warding Locations

Conquest / Standard ADC (Synergies & Matchups)



Support Synergies


ADC Matchups

Conquest / Mid-Lane Burst (Build & Gameplay)



Transcendence has been buffed for Season 5, and provides 10% CDR. This opens up some variety for how ability-based hunters can be played.

In the Trans-Qin's build, we're looking to create a hybrid hunter, making a build that relies on high ability burst for quick wave-clear and aggressive play. Since she doesn't have the greatest long-distance poke (without minions, at least), she'll rely on her full set of abilities to deal maximum damage, but will need to be cautious about engaging. This build can also be built in the ADC role. It's better in the mid-lane...the high power will allow Medusa to deal good objective damage, especially in comparison to mages, and the presence of Qin's Sais means she'll be a strong threat against tanky enemies.

The Trans-Crit build is a non-meta build that can be effective against a squishier team. 65% crit chance at full build will be incredibly effective with Lacerate + Viper Shot combos.

There are two issues that need to be understood with any Transcendence build.
  1. Trans costs 300 gold more than its stacking counterpart, Devourer's Gauntlet.
  2. Lifesteal comes significantly later than a Devo's build, making health sustain in-lane a challenge.
However, you make up for this with strong wave-clear and a very healthy mana pool, meaning you won't have any mana issues and can use your abilities without much fear of running out. The CDR can also be a positive factor.


Trans Qin's Build (Tank Killer)




Trans-Qin's Build (Details & Discussion)



Crit Build




Trans-Crit Build (Details & Discussion)



Ability Build



+ Situational

Ability Build (Details & Discussion)






Mid-Lane Starting Process & Early Game


Mid to Late Game


Warding Locations

Arena Builds & Gameplay



In an Arena setting, you don't have to worry about winning lane, taking down objectives, etc. As such, builds that might otherwise be considered out-of-order or unconventional can work, if you play to the build's strengths.

2 builds are offered below, depending on your preferred style of play.


The Critical Viper (Basic-Attack Build)





The Critical Viper (Details & Discussion)



The Spitting Viper (Ability Build)





The Spitting Viper (Details & Discussion)






Game Start & First Waves

Jungle Camps/Early Game


Mid-Game

Starting to really tie things together


Late-Game

Kick Them Out Of This Joint!

Some Of My Guides



If you liked this guide, check out my other ones below!


The Overarching Series


The
Overarching
Arena Guide

The
Overarching
Assault Guide

The
Overarching
Conquest Guide



Individual God Guides



Bacchus:
An Alcoholic's Chugging Guide

Freya:
Aurora
Gory-Alis

Ganesha:
Selflessly
Gifting Kills

Shifu Guan Yu:
The Battle
Master

Loki: The Backstabbing Bastard

Medusa: Getting Everyone Stoned

Conclusion



So that's it! If you like what I've done and how I try to improve the guide, anyone is welcome to suggest a god for me to work on next...and of course, I have to own them and/or want to play them =P but I'll let you know...

Thanks for reading, and I appreciate any and all comments, suggestions, etc. Feel free to add me/invite me if you want to play!


Brandon / PC IGN: Muffinman17 / PS4 IGN: Branmuffin17


p.s. No, I'm not a stoner. That's Medusa. And maybe Swagni...but seriously, I'm not (not really), so if you have any suggestions where I can put in more funny references, let me know!!! And you know this.....maaannnnnn!!!

Credits



Thanks to the following people, for comments and contributing to the improvement of this guide:
  • Kriega1
  • DV-8
  • boogiebass
  • xZerostrike

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1
[-]
Kriega1 (44) | September 28, 2018 5:58am
Makes no sense to get Trans 6th on Medusa for ADC.

Anyway, onto mid builds. For the first build, you going with Qins first over Executioner im guessing that you're relying on the other ADC to be a hunter and to get executioner first for Gold Fury/Pyromancer etc... Otherwise I strongly recommend you get executioner first. (Note: Please add objective protection removal as a reason for getting Exe first)

Second Mid build I would ideally get Rage before Executioner, Asi last isn't the best but I don't see another place for it unless you want to delay executioner. Could maybe swap Asi for Bloodforge but that depends if enemy team has thorns/nemian etc....

For the third build you may as well get executioner over titan's bane. In that case I would also swap ninja for warrior tabi.

A ADC build with crit could also be possibly listed. Either (Rage/DB/PS) and/or (PS/WD/DB).

Lastly for the 1st arena build I would get Rage before executioner and for both builds it's better to rush Devourers/Trans first item. Also would swap crusher and jotunns around for second build, especially since you went with Titan's Bane.
1
[-]
Branmuffin17 (234) | September 28, 2018 10:42am
Alright...let's see. (Also, initial thanks for taking the time to check the update)
  • Transcendence late: I understand where you're coming from with the concept of Trans late. That said, I feel saying it makes "no" sense is a bit of an overstatement. Late-game, she'll be level 20. This means if the only mana she gets is from Ninja Tabi, she'll have a total of 1,034. That's not bad, but if she's out and using abilities for extended times away from the fountain, that can be depleted...so the mana Trans provides can help.

    Also, upon purchase, Trans at 0 stacks with her at 20 provides 10% CDR, 300 mana, a bit of MP5, and 75 power. I wouldn't say 10% CDR (more ults, Viper Shots, and Lacerates in fights) isn't nice. Stacks are easy to get, but even with 0 stacks, it's very functional. Yes, other options (depending on what you choose 5th) bring different utility, but I just don't see how this cannot be considered. Would like to hear your thoughts.

  • I mostly didn't touch the mid builds in this initial update...was focusing heavily on ADC. I was also thinking Qin's for 1v1. I acknowledge that's not optimal, especially for mid, where you'll be exposed to more people, you'll be responsible more for jungle objectives, and where the jungler (often physical) will also be fighting by your side and will appreciate the Exe protection reductions. Changing Exe/Qin's order, and will add commentary on prot reduction for jungle objectives. Thanks for pointing this out.

  • Mid 2nd Build: Agreed on Rage before Exe. As for Asi, yeah, can again consider Bloodforge in that spot (like I did in my one Mid adjustment, in changing Asi to BF in the FIRST example build). I do talk about getting Asi earlier if needed, or optionally BF late if Asi wasn't purchased first...see how I've written that in the notes for the 1st mid build. I'll make sure that same comment is added for the 2nd notes.

  • Mid 3rd Build: Yeah, for the 3rd build, I can do that. I do think the current build isn't bad, but the power curve and Qin's effectiveness is a bit awkward.

  • Crit ADC: I can throw in a crit build just because. I did do a hard turn in switching fully over from crits to Qin's. I'll just put it up for those that want that build direction.

  • Arena: Again agreed, will switch Rage and The Executioner for the first build. As for 2nd, I like the idea of rushing full CDR for as many ults as quickly as possible. I WILL switch The Crusher and Titan's Bane, though.
Thanks Kriega.
1
[-]
Branmuffin17 (234) | September 27, 2018 5:14pm
Builds updated for Patch 5.18. Would appreciate views and comments if you have any.

Changed base ADC build from crits to Qin's/AS/pen. It's the more common build path for her right now, and is also great against objectives.

I've separated into core items (Devo, Tabi, Ichaival (optional bridge), Exe, Qin's) and now provide several options to consider for the last 2 slots. They are all functional and bring different things to the table, though some are more niche/situational (Atalanta, Silverbranch, Trans, etc.).
1
[-]
boogiebass (20) | September 27, 2018 6:57pm
bad/troll builds. MODERATOR, pls archive

The guide looks good bran. Have you actually played a game with some of these items? Or is it just theory crafting? For example, i can understand the appeal of Atlanta's bow due to medusas sidewinder. I still dont think silver branch bow is optimal.
1
[-]
Branmuffin17 (234) | September 27, 2018 7:11pm
Funny enough (and you keep writing "Atlanta's, ugh), Atalanta's Bow, in many ways, feels more important for the base 10% MS than the Sidewinder passive with stacks.

And that's a good question about playing a game with these items. No, I haven't, at least not with some of those final items.

That said, I've been doing this for so long, I feel confident that, in most cases, I know if something is going to function pretty well or not. DV-8 and I did mess around in Jungle Practice a bit to get the feel, and I will say that I do have item preferences within the options I provide.

You don't think Silver is optimal (which I can understand, and which I scoffed at HR for making that adjustment, lol), but if you take a step back, consider its stats. It's a bit less for the passive, and more that, 1 to 1 comparison, it's only got 5% less AS than Odysseus' Bow, has 20 or higher power situationally where O-Bow has none, and it has 10 flat pen. Yes, O-Bow offers some nice teamfight function, but against single targets, which one is pretty clearly better? And O-Bow is Meta.

So...of all the options, situationally I like Titan's, O-Bow, Crusher, and Silver. I like Atalanta's more situationally, HS a bit less, and it's a rare situation I'd get BF (I'd definitely consider if there wasn't any anti-heal in sight though). Trans is also nice for the stats it brings, once you've got your core items.

You can trust me or not on this, and I invite you to try out these item options, but I'm confident the stats these items provide are functional, and situationally helpful. It's about choosing the right combo for the right situation.
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boogiebass (20) | September 10, 2018 10:00pm
You like Asi in the final build?
Even though it procs Qin's Sais passive more, don't you advocate selling it late game?

So why is Asi bad late game if it procs qin's passive more?
1
[-]
Branmuffin17 (234) | September 11, 2018 1:15am
I'm confused. Did you read the notes? I ask, because...it doesn't seem like you read it. XD

Asi is only really present in the Transcendence builds, correct? I suggest building it anytime you feel like you need the lifesteal, but it's usually present later in the example build. Personally, I love Asi as a crutch after Trans + Tabi, because I always need the health cuz I suck. But I do suggest delaying it if possible, because before you get Qin's, it will always cut into your damage output, due to not having any power.

Of all the bridge items, I feel Asi has always translated very well even into the late game. The lifesteal boost at lower health is very, very nice, as long as you're not getting completely burst by a mage or 3 enemies at once. If that happens, not much is going to save you anyway.

In some instances, I do advocate selling Asi late, at least as an option...but here, with Medusa, I like keeping it in most cases...and my notes don't ever talk about switching it out...at least as far as I know.
1
[-]
boogiebass (20) | September 11, 2018 8:03am
I still have some questions. Will ask when we play together again.
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Kriega1 (44) | August 9, 2018 1:22pm
Why ichaival in crit build if you’re getting Rage? (Don’t you think it’s delaying for too long?) Also getting deathbringer before Executioner? Lastly, I think Exe should be built before Qins unless gold fury is down and you have enough gold on the back in which case you can get Qins, otherwise get exe for the objective shred, physical damage assisting on team, cheaper price, and the extra damage it gives to abilities if you have the stacks, unlike Qins which will only benefit autos.
1
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Branmuffin17 (234) | August 9, 2018 2:08pm
Ich is cheap and has very high AS, which will help since Rage/DB don't have any AS. Trying to supplement the lower AS in those situations.

Qin's / Exe whenever, switch between the two as needed. They're build guidelines, not hard set.
1
[-]
boogiebass (20) | August 9, 2018 1:31pm
Objective shred with exe?
1
[-]
Kriega1 (44) | August 9, 2018 1:34pm
Objectives as in Gold Fury. Not Structures (towers/phoenixes).
1
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ASUMAFRAN | March 29, 2018 7:08am
Hey,first of all your guide is great,really helped me improve with Medusa a lot.Yet i have a question, (i have tested it and it doesnt seem so bad)what do you think about Soul Eater on Medusa?This would be replacing your life steal item it gives slightly less AD, more mana (if you are going for a poke or teamfight build) and the cdr is good. It's kinda like if Trancendence and Devourer's Gauntlet had a baby.
1
[-]
Branmuffin17 (234) | March 29, 2018 7:45am
Hi ASUMAFRAN,

Thank you, I'm glad it's been helpful!

To be honest, Soul Eater has been off of my radar for hunters for a long while. I do admit that the power since its more recent buff is quite nice, and has an intriguing set of stats. I'm curious on where you feel the item fits best in a build, and the full build as a whole.

To me, SE is a big commitment to ability use (but it's weird that it's still got lifesteal, which is only applied via basics. Could I see it fit? Maybe yes, situationally...maybe more.

So, as you propose, a replacement for lifesteal, but also, Devo's + Trans, sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G, so maybe even to be considered as a replacement starter for either?

It's got good evolved power that's along the lines of Devo's at full stacks, but short of Trans. It's better than Trans in the point that it provides early lifesteal/sustain. I feel Devo's lifesteal is very powerful, and don't feel it's a full replacement for that, so I think maybe it works as a Trans replacement, if you decide to go that route.

Carry through the remainder of the Trans build...Tabi, Crusher, Exe, then Qin's + situational usually is my pref for a Trans-type build. With the funky ability lifesteal, I'd actually consider a second lifesteal item, perhaps. Maybe that last situational item would be Bloodforge.

I'll come back to this in a bit...but those are my first thoughts.
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ASUMAFRAN | March 29, 2018 9:16am
Alright,ill give it a go with the qin build and ill tell you about it
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Branmuffin17 (234) | March 29, 2018 8:54am
Okay, further thoughts, now I've got a build idea for Ullr. I'm gonna write up a quick build for him and want some feedback =P

Thinking about it with Medusa, though, I'm not sure, in the end, I like it enough. Maybe if you dedicated the build more fully to ability-based it would work best, but I'm just not sure.
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DV-8 (20) | March 21, 2018 8:25pm
Hey, Bran.

How do you feel about Medusa with the new Malice? I was theory crafting some Malice builds with Neith and I think it could be an interesting option.
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Branmuffin17 (234) | March 22, 2018 12:41pm
With Patch 5.5's passive adjustment to Malice, the passive seems like it will be much more reliable for general activation. That's a positive, and will be a very nice fit for Ne Zha, and should also be strong for other assassins that use crits, like Hun Batz and Serqet (but probably not Mercury).

However, I'm not fully sure on a god like Medusa (or Neith for that matter), but let's discuss.

We'll assume that Malice will be built late-game, so are we agreed we're not talking 1 v 1 or laning? Also, is it reasonable to assume that Neith will always use Transcendence, while Medusa can consider for both Devourer's Gauntlet and Transcendence builds?


Medusa

For Medusa in a Devourer's Gauntlet build, I don't like the high cost of Malice as a first crit item (followed by Deathbringer). With Devo's, it's a strong commitment to focusing on basic attack DPS, so I consider DB to be a core crit item. I'd much rather get Rage as 1st crit. Also, once stacked, Rage will hold its own, DPS-wise, until DB gets online.

However, I can maybe see Malice either replacing Rage late-game, or being added as a 3rd crit item, maybe replacing The Crusher, with Wind Demon being the first crit item (trying not to drop too much attack speed). Those are a lot of substitutions though, and that's getting to be VERY expensive.

In a Transcendence build, I think I prefer the Qin's Sais pathway for better overall build flexibility, instead of being required to dedicate 2 spots for crits. That said, I could see getting Malice in place of Rage there, though with the higher price it'll definitely either slow your power curve or you'll need to be ahead to make things smoother in transition.

As for execution, the question is, how will she be able to get the most out of that passive? In the late game in a teamfight scenario, she'll usually just toss basics (possibly with Viper Shot here and there... Acid Spray is awkward in a teamfight), and save Lacerate as an emergency escape...if her team gets the upper hand, she may choose to single out an individual enemy and go for a Lacerate -> Viper Shot combo. It's there that I think she'd get a lot of potential, especially if she'd been boxing and had already triggered a crit. Not only could she get bonus damage from Lacerate, but she could also possibly get bonus damage (and crit refreshes) from Viper Shot...once the new patch hits (or if I go into PTS), I'll have to confirm the passive translates the bonus damage appropriately to the each initial Viper hit and the additional DoT.

With a crit trigger, it also provides a crazy boost to her ult. At max rank, that 700 damage + 100% scaling (in this build, she'd have 238 power) = 938 total damage before mitigations. Give that a 35% damage increase, and she's potentially hitting for 1,266 damage, hopefully on multiple gods. That's pretty crazy. So yeah, I think that it's got good potential in that build, as long as you're using your abilities in a way to maximize damage output.


Neith

Neith is a bit different, to me. Her strengths just aren't in her basics, and I'd be personally reluctant to build crits on her. If I can theory-craft, I think an appropriate build might be something along these lines:

No lifesteal because hopefully she won't need it much, due to her built-in healing (and proper positioning and Supports doing their job). She's got a decent escape, a nice stun, and can probably just pick up Heavenly Wings as a 2nd relic. No Deathbringer because Malice seems like a good alternative for an ability-based god. Rage to increase her chances of getting a crit to activate Malice's passive. Is that reasonable?

But how best to utilize that passive? It's not going to have the multiple target burst potential of Medusa in many ways. If she can get an opportunistic placement of Broken Weave, sure she can hit a Spirit Arrow and maybe hit more than 1 target, but Unravel has a delay, and Back Flip takes her out of the action for at least a second with some additional displacement which could be an issue for landing further abilities after use. Also, her ability CDs are long.

The most compelling reason to get Malice, in my mind, would be for Neith's great scaling in all abilities...she might not get more than one passive bonus per activation, but that damage will be significant.

I think I like it potentially better on Medusa, but I'm no Neith expert (I typically avoid playing her) so I don't know for sure. Thoughts?
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DV-8 (20) | March 22, 2018 6:27pm
I finally got the chance to sit down and think about this.

Basically, I was just trying to figure out if Malice could be viable or not. After thinking about it and reading your thoughts, I still don't think I like it all that much.

To be honest though, I'm not a huge fan of Crit in general right now on Hunters. I think a Qin's Sais focused build is the strongest option personally.

But in a Crit build, I could maybe see Malice doing alright for someone like Medusa or Ullr. However, you would kind of have to play around the passive in order to get value out of the item compared to Deathbringer, which would really discourage me from using it.
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DV-8 (20) | September 30, 2017 3:59pm
Great guide! Great quality and content (in classic Bran fashion). I like all of the stoner references as well, lol.

I especially like your arena build where you found a way to include Hydra's Lament. I think this is a solid item on Medusa that has some good synergies with her kit, and solves some of her Mana consumption problems.

Your other builds are solid as well. As a more experienced Medusa player, I wanted to ask you how you think a Shifter's Shield build would work on her (Shifter's being used as an alternative to a stacking item). Personally, I'm not sure if I like the idea of it or not, but I think it could be viable.

Also, when doing the ability combos, I think it is important to get some basic attack hits in beforehand as well, to ensure that stacks of things like The Executioner are applied to the target for maximum damage when unleashing the combo. Of course, this is more for 1v1 scenarios. When catching a group of enemies, jumping right into the combo is probably best.

Overall, really nice guide. +1
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Branmuffin17 (234) | September 30, 2017 4:25pm
I'd be fine with Shifter's Shield in place of Trans in my 2nd build. I never really used it for her at that one point that it became pretty popular earlier in S4, and the minor nerf makes it a bit less appealing to me. I also think you'll need to continue buying Mana Potions for a bit longer going that route, since Bluestone Pendant isn't quite enough MP5-wise.

Your whole approach, in fact, should probably change if you go Shifter's. Yes, it provides a somewhat similar boost in power, so think about the differences. Lots of mana from Trans means use abilities as much as possible when they're up. Means extremely quick camp / minion clear between Acid Spray and Viper Shot. Protections from Shifter's means a higher focus on boxing, with the hopes that between basics and abilities, you'll come out ahead in a 1 v 1 (or survive a gank attempt) against someone without protections. Note also that your main lane enemy should probably be physical (and enemy comp should have 3 phys), since Shifter's has a slight edge on phys protections.

Yes, you're right, basics anytime will always help damage overall with Exe, and can help with overall DPS when comboing. As the late-game comes, though, it'll probably be more about quick burst on squishies, meaning loading Viper Shot beforehand so it's ready to burst as soon as you Lacerate someone, etc. I should look to see if I can fit talking about basic attacking more somewhere in the combo section...might not if it doesn't flow, but it's a good point.

Thanks for reading and reviewing, DV-8!
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Kriega1 (44) | July 8, 2017 3:49am
Is Ichaival actually worth it on hunters as a third item instead of second? Because Dynasty Plate Helm (the bridge item for mages) is only really effective as a second item. Or is this dependent on the game mode?
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Branmuffin17 (234) | July 8, 2017 10:39am
I think Ichaival is actually pretty relevant until late-game. And when building Devo's 2nd, she really starts wanting attack speed at that point, and she'll need to be stacking anyway, so the situation fits, I think, for that boxing effectiveness.

Granted, others argue that it should be built 2nd, before Devo's. I think both are fine, with different advantages for both.
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Time2medicate (4) | May 20, 2017 9:16pm
What build would you use in joust ?
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Branmuffin17 (234) | May 20, 2017 11:46pm
Build 1 (Devo's) would be fine in most cases, though here are specific thoughts:
  • You can skip Death's Toll unless you REALLY want it.
  • You can delay Devourer's Gauntlet to item #3, getting a boxing item like Ichaival or Silverbranch Bow before it.
  • You can also go for Devo's 1st to start building stacks, if you're comfortable not having move speed to start. She's got a dash, so you can always use that.
  • If you've got 2 phys gods on your team (including you), you can skip Ichaival and go straight into The Executioner if you want.
  • Consider Hastened Fatalis mid-game if you see the enemies aren't really building protections.
Build 2 (Trans) is good if you want higher burst. Consider this if you don't have a good burst mage on your team. Specific thoughts here:
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Time2medicate (4) | May 22, 2017 9:09pm
Thanks I really want to learn to love Medusa I am trying
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CirclesAreRound (14) | April 25, 2017 7:28am
I love you
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Bernardozomer (33) | April 25, 2017 8:11am
Sorry, but you aren't one of Bran's chickens.
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Technotoad64 (45) | April 25, 2017 11:06am
"Bran's Chickens" sounds like a minor league baseball team.
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CirclesAreRound (14) | April 25, 2017 8:16am
Don't ruin my chances
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masterricu (12) | April 24, 2017 12:47pm
Alright Bran, time for some of Ricu's good ol imput:

1) Ichaival is a second slot item. Its more dps than lifesteal 2nd and also outtrades. If you are going to rush devos, which is totally fine, then dont go into ich period. At that point the early game is over, and youd be better off with exe 3rd.

2) Qin's build is just not as good as crit right now. Less dps late game, roughly the same dps mid game, less lifesteal because asi, and qins doesnt apply to fire giant or gold fury. Devos is a must right now, and devos works best with crit.

3) Triple crit is never a good idea, youre always better off with two crit and more pen. That and no lifesteal in build 3? Bran cmon...

Overall the rest of the guide is fine and over detailed as usual. Only the builds need changing. A general build I'd recommend would be:

Boots (preference), ich, devos, exe, wd, db

If you want that early game aggression, or you are behind and cant rush devos.

or

Boots, devos, exe, fatalis (op medusa passive), wd, db.

If you ARE ahead.
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Branmuffin17 (234) | April 24, 2017 1:45pm
Hey Ricu,

Woot, feedback! Most excellent. Lemme see...
  1. Understood and generally agreed, but want further discussion on this. Honestly, I'm torn, it's hard to display options at the top. Ichaival, although a good early boxing item, could still be a good 3rd item situationally, right? In the writeup in the body, I do mention that if you're facing a particularly squishy team, you can delay The Executioner until later...what if I went straight from Ich to the crit items in those cases? Still better, you think, to just skip Ich altogether and just get Exe? I like the Ich option for the cheaper price and slightly higher attack speed...and I DO prefer Devo's 2nd, just to clarify that. To me, it feels delaying Devo's past 2nd isn't that good. I think Duotem agrees...I got a lot of feedback from him at the start of S4 on these builds.

    Further to your 2nd build suggestion, you really like Hastened Fatalis in the 4th slot? I mean...I do too, but I'd have figured you'd be one of those players against using Fatalis.

  2. My preference is absolutely the Devo's/crit build, but I offer the Transcendence/ Qin's Sais unicorn build as an option...hence why Devo's is build #1. That said, if played mid, the Trans build just feels like a much stronger wave-clear build, and doing that makes her feel more like a mage. I also watched pro builds for S4, and people like BaRRa still seemed to prefer the Bluestone/Trans builds...hence why I included it. For those that just always prefer Trans, I figured offering them a solid build would be better than not offering them any.

  3. For the non-Conq build #3, I was mostly thinking Arena since the fountain is close...thinking that getting lifesteal would delay her output, so burst and back off was my idea there. Asi has no power, and combined with Fatalis isn't a great option for her damage. Bloodforge is expensive. Devourer's Gauntlet is stacking, which isn't necessarily a great option in a teamfight mode. See where my thought process was going there?

    Granted, it was also created during Patch 4.1, when Poisoned Star and Wind Demon were cheaper...was a great way to get some early crit for cheap. Honestly haven't given it much thought since then, nerfs included. I do need to update. Suggestions on a good arena build?

    Also will clarify that in Clash/Joust, I do actually just default to one of the two standard builds rather than the 3rd build. Only in Arena would I potentially use that build...but not any longer with the nerfs.
Thanks for the feedback, and would love some further discussion.
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masterricu (12) | April 24, 2017 5:29pm
1) Even with 15% lifesteal, ich still outtrades devos at level 10. If you are behind, and the enemy went devos, ich is a good option for you to get back in the fight and avenge yourself. Its been like this in duel, and its been like this in conquest forever. The reason why people get devos second is either a. they are ahead and want to hit the late game faster or b. they dont plan on fighting in lane and play like a puss building stacks and not boxing in lane (aka barraccudda lol).

Once you are item three, people are generally level 14. Meaning everyone has more than 30 phys prot, even the squishies. 10 pen is 33% of 30. If everyone has 40+ prot, then exe immediately does more than 10 flat pen. Not to mention you get the 25 power on your first auto, instead of 0 then 10 then 20 then 30 from ich.

Exe third is also better for gold furies. This is again, if you are ahead building for the late game.

2)Hunters 100% do NOT belong in the mid lane. Im tired of seeing it. It didnt work with Xeno's izanami who has the best clear in the game at worlds, and it doesnt work with neith or any other mage. Your clear will always be worse, you will always be single target, with no aoe, and dont do damage for 80% of the game.

I updated my zeus guide recently, and every mid hunter I saw at a diamond 5 level I destroyed. Consistent damage output is important, especially in an early game meta. Gods like Zeus and Vulcan can do 65k damage in one game with barely moving a finger, where a hunter will struggle to break 40k in a 30min+ game landing every single basic attack.

3) For arena, yes you need lifesteal, and devos is not hard to stack. I stack it fully every game I play (rushing item 2) mostly from getting kills.

4) Poison star is still trash. Even the new rage is trash except maybe on izanami.

Oh yeah, and about the fatalis thing, generally speaking no, I build fatalis last on all my hunters. Medusa is an exception because of her passive tho. Also depending on who you are fighting in arena for example, fatalis makes you almost uninhabitable by gods like thanatos or ne zha ult, which is sometimes more useful than dps. tldr it depends.
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