2 Nemesis Build opinions

I recently got into playing Nemesis and have been playing around with a couple builds with her. I'm curious what you guys think.

My first build that I have had mixed results with focuses on power and speed. This build also focuses on removing protections (stone cutting sword) and gaining power from basic attacks.

Warrior Tabi, Masamune, Jotunn's Wrath, Stone Cutting sword, Ichaival, the Executioner.

My reasoning for build:
Since Nemesis is pretty squishy. I really like Masamune, a good boost of power and gives some movement speed to get in and out of situations. The passive fits well for her because of her low HP which is beneficial early game to get a few kills.
Jotunns wrath is just all around good for since it has so many perks with CDR and penetration.
Stone Cutting sword- removes protections while increasing yours.
Ichaival- Same as Stone cutting just with physical power.
Executioner- Final increase in Attack speed and some more power and passive to take physical protections.

My other build is similar but solely focuses on slowing enemy and taking and gaining protections/power. I have tried this build out only once and went 6/5 in arena

No particular order- Warrior Tabi, Witchblade, Frostbound Hammer, Stone Cutting Sword, Ichaival, Executioner.

The attack speed of this build is high (2.13) according to eliteownage smitebuilder. The power is nothing to brag about at 175 with 3 Stacks on Ichaival.


Personally, I like the theory of build 2 but I'm not sure I could get enough damage to actually get any kills.


Just curious on what others think and other alternatives to fit my idea. Thanks

Hey Newbie,

Question: What mode are you talking about for these? Any/all, conquest, arena?

I like the thought you've put into this. I'm absolutely not a Nemesis expert, so just sharing my thoughts. And, for me, she is one of the most difficult gods to build...so many options, but hard to say what is going to be best...probably depends a lot on situation/matchups.

I get the idea of additional movement speed. If you're talking Jungle, Warrior Tabi, some extra move speed, and the speed buff combined mean you'll be all over the place, but not sure how much you do need the extra speed if you've got the speed buff. In other modes that don't have speed buff, I see more use from an extra movespeed item.

Masamune is currently considered a bit underwhelming. The base 50 power is nice, but the passive really only means you're going to get the benefit when fighting tanks. If you want the extra move speed, have you considered Winged Blade? Gives you a bit more health, the move speed, some more attack speed, some CC reduction, and can still help you get away when slows are applied to you.

You're getting even more movement speed in Stone Cutting Sword. At a certain point, additional move speed has diminishing returns. With your 3 move speed items, your move speed is 518, which means you're getting 20% less move speed function out of some of this stat...See the updated Book of Thoth for further information.

So...I'd personally just recommend one of the two. Winged Blade would be my choice, both for full stat synergy for Nemesis and for the )WAY) cheaper price.

But the sword had another purpose...protection shredding. The added protections are also nice. If you also like Ichaival, I'd probably only build one of the two...but maybe I'd build neither. I think the buff to The Executioner makes it a bit more appealing again. I'd probably combine it with Qin's Sais for strong protection shredding and call it a day on that front.

So what does that first build look like now, for me? Warrior Tabi, Winged Blade, Jotunn's Wrath (I like CDR too and I guess it can have its place in a hybrid build like this), The Executioner, Qin's Sais...and item #6? You could consider blending this with something from your other build... Frostbound Hammer, to lock down enemies even more between Slice and Dice hits.

Man, that's a weird build. See? I have no clue how to build her...lol.

I'd also argue one other thing on your comment with regard to somewhat low power... Qin's Sais and enough penetration/protection reduction will help your damage output. Also, Nem isn't really a burst god. She's a boxer, meaning you're engaging for a longer period of time. Her shield helps, any protection items can help, and keeping the enemy locked down helps. You don't need to build straight up power to 100-0 someone.

Saw this one...read the comments for further ideas...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Smite/comments/4q1nlt/how_to_nemesis_properly/

BranMuffin17- Thank you for the well thought out response.

Apologies, I usually play arena with Nemesis. (I can't seem to figure out good builds for other modes)

I am an aggressive player who sometimes gets to far from home so I build up my movement speed to get in and out since Nemesis is squishy.

When I attack I start with the Slice and Dice or Ult (if available) to slow my target down then attempt to shred protections with passives from Stone Cutting Sword and/or Executioner. I do have some success with it but if enemy's teammates converge on me I am usually toast.

I have fallen away from Ichaival and usually plug in Hastened Fatalis as I continue to tinker with Nemesis, but I will look into Winged Blade because CC just annihilates Nemesis.

I am bored at work so I like to go to eliteownage.com/smitebuilder and tinker around with what I think could work and then try it out.
Something that I came up with is decent damage with CDR and penetration. I have yet to try it but like the way it feels in theory.

Warrior Tabi-Jotunns- Qins- Executioner-Hydra's Lament- ? (Brawlers Beat stick or anything else with Power and penetration)

Reasoning-

CDR from Hyrdas and Jotunns, Considering Hyrdas over Breastplaste for the passive ability. Since I start attack by ability my next attack deals more damage.

Penetration- Jotunns and Brawlers beat stick. I have not used Brawlers but reading the passive seems beneficial but it might not be I am not sure.

Power and Attack speed- All items

Also considering Heartseeker with this as well, since I start my attacks with ability then with Hyrda's Lament my next basic attack would be stronger, will I am taking protection away with Executioner meanwhile being able to use my Slice and Dice within 8 secs seems like it could be lethal.

What do you think?

Smite Builder is my building site of choice as well...has been very helpful to me.

So, if you read some of the comments from that Reddit link, most of those comments are likely for Conquest/Jungle. Knowing your build is for arena is helpful, and means that some of the things they're talking about apply to a lesser degree.

Not that I'm going to be able to come to any conclusions, but let's break down some of the main things. We're talking mostly 5v5 teamfight, so unless the god is a full basic attacker (e.g. Kali), then CDR is definitely helpful. Another thing many overlook is protection. Sure, you might not get protection items on your typical ADC in Conquest, but depending on team comps, it can really save you...against a team of 4 physical gods, I'll definitely consider Breastplate of Valor on Xbalanque.

Nem's strengths that you're focusing on...main damage via basic attacks (via attack speed + Qin's) as first priority, CDR (specifically for ult and possibly getting off 2 Slice and Dice in a fight) as second priority.

So, again, core items.

• Warrior Tabi or Ninja Tabi: If you consider Qin's Sais, I'd probably suggest Ninja. Guess it also depends on the rest of the build. Let's continue.
• Jotunn's Wrath: high power, some flat pen, and the 20% CDR.
• Qin's Sais: high power/shredding via passive...the more you hit, the better, so attack speed is key, even more than power.
• Penetration: Pen is essential here, because Nem has anti-tank capabilities, both with the ult and with Qin's. In this case, The Executioner with its recent buff probably works well. What other options are there? Stone Cutting Sword, Void Shield, Titan's Bane, Brawler's Beat Stick (not going to consider The Crusher in this case), Asi. I'll get into these options later.

I think we both agree on these as core. Let's go over the rest of your items.

Brawler's Beat Stick: I love this item. Seriously. But in this case, I think it's going to be a bit less effective. In conquest, when people are far from base and can be caught alone, this can be very effective, especially against healing mages and some warriors (e.g. Guan Yu, Hercules, Chaac, Vamana, Amaterasu). But in Arena, I find it a bit less functional. Yes, the 40 power and 20 flat pen is great. So I'd consider it situational rather than core.

Hastened Fatalis: with her super-high slow (50% at level 5 of S&D), you shouldn't need the extra sticking power of Fatalis. So, you're getting it for attack speed (okay, synergistic with Qin's) and move speed (you overextend, so this can save your bacon). This can be okay, but I think you'll find it more effective if you just focus on adjusting your playstyle and consciously try not to overextend as much. You've got Swift Vengeance as an escape, and Retribution as a shield to soak damage if necessary. That should be more than enough to keep you alive, if you've got teammates close.

Hydra's Lament: okay, this is an interesting choice. If you can make sure you get basic attacks in between activating your abiltiies, it can be a nice boost of damage. The 15% CDR is a perfect fit with Jotunn's Wrath to get you almost to max CDR, which means your originally 70 second CD ult can now be used every 45 seconds!!! Also, gets your escape up more often to get you out of trouble, and definitely helps to get 2 Slice and Dice off (now 8.5 second CD). I'd say this is a good 6th item option.



And I know this is already TL;DR, but I think 1 protection item could be useful. Remember, you're not going to 100-0 someone quickly, it's a teamfight, so less damage and more survivability can be helpful.



So, um, where are we? I'm lost, lol. Full build...

Ninja Tabi, Jotunn's Wrath, The Executioner, Qin's Sais...last two combo items could be:

• Spirit Robe + Winged Blade: Against team with tons and tons of CC but low damage/mobility
• Hide of the Urchin + Hydra's Lament: Balanced defense and offense for Nem
• Hydra's Lament + Stone Cutting Sword: Full power when fed
• Ancile + Winged Blade: Against more magical enemies with CC
• Void Shield + Hydra's Lament: Anti-physical (e.g. warriors)
• Witchblade + Hydra's Lament: Anti-physical (e.g. hunters + basic attacking assassins)

Man, I want someone else to break apart my suggestions...Bullfrog? Zilby? Anyone? Thoughts?

@Bran, Nemesis is a basic attacker first and foremost, so getting more than 20% CDR is kind of a waste (the only reason you really want Jotunn's Wrath is for more ultis). Because Nemesis needs to be up front and in your face to deal her damage, it's usually best to build some health and protections. Frostbound Hammer is great because it gives you that extra sticking power, and it prevents ADCs from shredding you as easily with its health and passive. Hide of the Urchin and some other physical/mixed defense items can be a good addition to make you a bit tankier.

Generally you do want Qin's Sais on Nemesis, so you probably want to grab at least 25% attack speed aside from that item to make it worthwhile. That means you can do Warrior Tabi -> Ichaival/ Hastened Fatalis -> Frostbound Hammer -> Qin's Sais -> defense item -> Stone Cutting Sword (for penetration) or Warrior Tabi/ Ninja Tabi -> attack speed/power item (or something else if you choose ninja tabi like Jotunn's Wrath) -> Frostbound Hammer -> The Executioner -> Qin's Sais -> defense item. Alternatively you can also try to grab just one defense item like Hide of the Urchin, skip frostbound and make either a high damage Qin's Sais build or go crit. Of course there are also ways to finagle around with the build such as getting Witchblade to increase your protections AND build attack speed, but that's for you to discover.

Things you don't want on Nemesis:

• % penetration (ie: Titan's Bane): Nemesis ultimate reduces enemies protections by 50%, meaning that during your ultimate, the effectiveness of % penetration is halved.
• Too much CDR: Nemesis abilities have very low scalings. Her dash has a low enough cooldown at 20% CDR (11 seconds) that if you build protections you can dash into a fight, engage enemies and then dash out. Her Retribution has a long enough cooldown (16 seconds default) that you can only use it once per most engagements regardless. The reason 20% CDR is good to have is because it makes her ultimate go from a 70s cooldown to a 58 second cooldown, overstacking it more than that though begins to lose efficiency.
• Hydra's Lament: Sorry bran, just not a good item on her. Your abilities are really for utility, thus you need to time when they go off accordingly. Hydra's Lament excels on gods that have a few damaging abilities that can be cancelled into AAs like Loki, where the timing of said abilities doesn't matter. On Nemesis, you should save your Slice and Dice to slow enemies, your Retribution to mitigate damage at the right time, your dash for movement and your ultimate for the best opportunity. Spamming them to proc Hydra's just isn't worth it.
• Void Shield: So this one is a bit weird. The way Nemesis' ult works is that it steals 50% of the enemy's protections. If you're too close to an enemy and have Void Shield, you'll have reduced their physical protection by 20, meaning you will steal 10 less protection. Items like The Executioner and Stone Cutting Sword generally don't have this problem since you'll usually ulti and then hit them with basics, but Void Shield can cause this to happen.

@Zilby: F U. That said, um...with her 50% slow on S&D, do you still think Frostbound Hammer is necessary?

Oh...I forgot it actually reduces basic attack speed too. Hmmm...that's nice. LOL I always only thought of it for its slow. Geez.

Okay newbiemj, here's my adjusted list since Hydra's isn't very good...

Core: Ninja Tabi, Jotunn's Wrath, The Executioner, Qin's Sais...if you want to include Frostbound Hammer, get it before The Executioner

• Spirit Robe + Winged Blade: Against team with tons and tons of CC but low damage/mobility
• Frostbound Hammer + Hide of the Urchin: Balanced defense + slow, which will help you live longer since you'll be sticking on an enemy longer
• Stone Cutting Sword + Asi: Full power when fed, with high pen and some lifesteal for sustain
• Ancile + Winged Blade: Against more magical enemies with CC
• Frostbound Hammer + Witchblade: Anti-physical (e.g. hunters + basic attacking assassins)

Does that look better?

Yeah that's better. The slow on Frostbound Hammer isn't required (hence I said you could just do urchin for example) but one 2s slow isn't super reliable for sticking to targets (outside of ulti). Eg: you use Slice and Dice and then get hit by a slow, stun or any other form of cc. Suddenly your sticking power is non-existent and your target just gets away since you can't unload your damage on them. Against certain teams this may not be that much of a problem, but against some it will.

Also in defense of my giving advice on nem, she is my most played jungler and I did write a guide on her :P

BUT IT'S OUTDATED. TIME TO UPDATE TO S3!!!

~signed,

Technotoad

(lol Techno, no offense meant!)

Damn, writing all of this makes me want to play her in Arena again...

You forgot a couple things.

• I don't use all caps
• I don't sign with tilde except on Wikipedia ~~~~

Oh yeah, and also the yellow text. Season 3!

Other than that, spot on. Pestering everybody about Season 3 updates was the main reason I made an account in the first place.

Ever notice how similar our usernames are? Then again, it's a pretty common format.