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Devourer's Gauntlet or Transcendence?

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Forum » Theory Crafting » Devourer's Gauntlet or Transcendence? 20 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Tlaloc1050 » January 8, 2018 4:12am | Report
I recently came across two people arguing; one saying that devos is better completely overall regardless of the situation/ who it is on a hunter. His argument was that its because of the lifesteal allowing you to box, and that with trans you have to use up another slot for lifesteal.

What do you think?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Technotoad64 » January 8, 2018 5:32am | Report
I used to pick trans over devo's every time, since it seemed to give way more total power in the end, and Asi is pretty cheap and can be sold for Bloodforge later. But this was back before they buffed Devo's, so my opinion might not be relevant here.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Branmuffin17 » January 8, 2018 10:15am | Report
Tlaloc, I would say that the person's argument about Devo's containing lifesteal, while with Trans you have to use another slot to get lifesteal, is probably the main reason to get Devo's. If you don't mind, though, let's go through this more deeply (are you surprised?).

I'm going to pull my main writeup from my Items guide as a base reference.

Devourer's Gauntlet & Trans stats


An old argument used to be that Trans only needed 50 stacks, while Devo's took a lot longer to stack (used to be 75). That one's out the window, as it's only 60 now, and that's not really a big difference. Also, while Trans has remained basically untouched, Devo's has gotten some buffs, and now starts with higher base power, which also helps its case.

The two main draws of Trans, as you know, are that it provides the highest physical power of all items, and gives you an incredible mana pool so you never really have to worry about running out of mana. This is not only nice for knowing you can spam abilities for wave clear, but also for not running out at a crucial time during a fight.

But if you can manage your ability use well, you may be able to get by without that mana pool...and with that feature potentially being less needed, you look at what Trans provides compared to Devo's, and how that might affect a build. To me, Devo's is NOT just straight up superior to Trans. Depends on the hunter, and depends how you want to build.
  • Power: Trans provides higher power, yes, but Devo's power isn't anything to scoff at. At full stacks, it's also one of the highest power items in the game, sharing similar space with Shifter's Shield (+50% health) and Bloodforge. That said, between the two, Trans is going to be more effective for a hunter relying a lot on their abilities for clear...it'll generally deal more damage due to the higher power, and can help you win early laning.

  • Lifesteal: Yes, this is a key part of why Devo's is great. At full stacks, has the best general lifesteal of all items (outside of Asi when the passive is on). You'll build it as item #1 or #2, so you'll have good sustain in lane very early. Since Trans doesn't have it, you do have to get a separate item, so you lose a potential space for another item.

  • Cost: Devo's is extremely cheap for the stats it provides...power to cost ratio is great. This means it'll be finished before Trans given same build order, which means earlier stacking potential, as well as a leg up on fighting for a short while before they finish their item (given an equivalent matchup with the other building Trans).

Builds & Build Flexibility

For builds, let's say core contains 3 items...boots, a stacking item, and a high pen item (either The Executioner or Titan's Bane).

If you want crits, you need at least 2 spaces. This leaves you with only one more space. If you chose Trans, you have to choose between lifesteal or another item (e.g. Odysseus' Bow, The Crusher, a 3rd crit item, etc.). If you are going Qin's, then there's a bit more flexibility, which is one reason why a Trans + Qin's build is common.

However, if you got Devo's, you don't have that dilemma. For crits, you can go something like Devourer's Gauntlet, Ninja Tabi, The Executioner, Rage, Deathbringer, and still have another space for something useful. This is why Devo's + Crit is standard.

Then you look at the god you're going to play, and see which one is a better fit. Do they have any AS steroids, of ANY kind? Yes, this includes Cupid via Flutter, as well as Medusa via Viper Shot. If so, you CAN consider a crit build...though it's potentially better to get Trans + Qin's for those specific gods.

If, on the other hand, a god has no AS steroids, their basic attack burst damage potential is going to be lower than one who has it, which is one reason to focus on high power and pen for ability damage (and objective takedown potential).

Anyway, the one arguing Devo's is 100% superior, to me, is shortsighted and not thinking about the big picture. Just because the lifesteal allows you to box doesn't mean you'd actually want to box. If you've got Neith vs. Rama, no way in heck Neith wants to engage in a basic attack boxing match...she's going to want to poke a lot with her abilities and stay at max range unless she's got a clear upper hand (due to things like higher level and more items). She also doesn't need the lifesteal quite as much, because she's got healing in her kit.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Duotem » January 8, 2018 11:28am | Report
Currently Devo's the right choice 99% of the time due to gold and stat efficiency, but saying every situation is kind of dumb. If there's a mode where you're not likely to get the chance to stack quickly you're going to want to pass, in which case Trans becomes better due to receiving most of the benefit up front.

Writing this in class so not enough time to go into all the details, but that's about the gist of it. I build it pretty much every mode, with exception being troll builds and when i'm playing clash with 2+ high clear mages on my team.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Branmuffin17 » January 8, 2018 11:42am | Report
So you'd go Devo's even on Ullr and Skadi (and Neith)?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Duotem » January 8, 2018 5:43pm | Report
Yep

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Branmuffin17 » January 8, 2018 8:25pm | Report
Okay Duo, further clarification. Since we're not all pros, some people that are playing may really appreciate the mana that Trans provides. I wouldn't say that Trans is non-viable, so even if it's not the absolute best, it still should work pretty well for some gods.

So, HOW much better would you say Devo's is at this point? Because it wasn't long ago that the pros were still building Trans on some hunters...and the Devo's changes weren't incredibly huge.

Also, how the heck does Ullr handle the early mana requirements if he wants to unload his kit? Bluestone + lots of early potions? Bumba's for nearby jungle? I know his mana costs dropped some, but still.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Tlaloc1050 » January 9, 2018 1:25am | Report
Branmuffin17 wrote:

let's go through this more deeply (are you surprised?)


Never, ever, will be lol.

All very true. I'd always pick trans as Neith or Ullr. Do you think trans and crit is a good idea? Or is it not worth it? Also, i heard everyone in the SWC is building devo's, I dont watch though.

also i feel bad that you're giving an essay while giving i'm 2 sentences

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Wayne3100 » January 9, 2018 3:46am | Report
I've carried over a certain belief from my time playing League, which, to put it bluntly, comes down to "if you're buying a mana item, that means you don't know how to manage your mana efficiently". For that reason alone I don't think I've ever bought Transcendence.

That said, in League there are certainly exceptions, and maybe some mana items in this game are stronger than I give them credit for. With that in mind, do you guys know of any Hunters for which Transcendence is a common buy, even among higher elo / pro players?

Thanks to Janitsu for the signature!

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Tlaloc1050 » January 9, 2018 5:05am | Report
Weird but sort of true saying. The only one I've heard of that Transcendence has been regularly bought on is... Ullr.

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