Smitefire logo

Join the leading SMITE community.
Create and share God Guides and Builds.

Create an MFN Account


Or

Devourer's Gauntlet or Transcendence?

Please review our General Rules & Guidelines before posting or commenting anywhere on SmiteFire.

Forum » Theory Crafting » Devourer's Gauntlet or Transcendence? 20 posts - page 2 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Branmuffin17 » January 9, 2018 11:29am | Report
Historically, just going back to mid-season, pros like BaRRaCCuDDa were still using Transcendence on gods like Medusa.

I do see (Smite Pro Builds) that pros are building Devourer's Gauntlet even on Ullr now, and have been for the past couple of months at least.

The main reason for this, as far as I know, is the mid-August patch, where they buffed Devo's quite nicely...lowered the cost from 2,050 to 2,000, decreased required max stacks from 75 to 60, and increased base power from 25 to 30, all of which really help with its power curve. (since that point, they've jumped the price back up to 2,100 gold, but that's still a low cost for what it provides)

As an aside, even through November, Skadi has been built by the pros mainly with Transcendence. Same generally with Neith (when she is even played at all).

Thing is, Ullr recently got buffed.
  • In September and before, Bladed cost 50 mana, Expose was 60-80, and Hail was 70-90.
  • In November, he got buffed, and Bladed cost the same, while Expose was reduced to a flat 50, and Hail to a flat 60. This is huge for a stance-switching god that may want/need to use his abilities twice in one big combo.
Level 6 Ullr has a base of 470 mana. At level 6, most people will have put 3 points into Bladed Arrow / Thrown Axe, 2 points into Hail of Arrows / Glory Bound, and 1 point into Expose Weakness / Invigorate. If we consider a combo of (Bow stance) Expose (50) -> Hail (60) -> Bladed (50) -> Stance Switch -> Thrown (50) -> Glory (60) -> and then maybe Invigorate (50) to chase, this is a total of 320 mana (~70% of his mana). Now, that's not too bad, but before his buff, he would have used 370, which is closer to 80% of his mana. Also, he does scale very nicely with high power (in bow form, Bladed has 80% scaling, and Hail has 120%). To me, Trans was more important to him before his buffs, and since his buff and the Devo's buff, Devo's (+ some early Mana Potions) looks to be enough, but it doesn't mean that Transcendence is bad. Being able to blow more than half of your mana in 10 seconds is a lot, and that's not considering your mana might already be down at the point you want to go all-in.

Skadi and Neith, to me, still make a lot of sense using Trans, though more in Neith's case...she's got her heal, so needs lifesteal a bit less in the early going.

Branmuffin17
<Moderator>


Sublime (280)
Posts: 6310
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Duotem » January 10, 2018 6:16am | Report
With Ullr you could always go Devo's pretty much, you just had to be careful with mana and now it's much less of an issue, since you only ever need one combo *cough* *cough*. It really just comes down to learning when and how to fight and managing mana that way.

None of the other gods even come close to really needing it. You could make an argument about Xbalanque, but with his clear casting with death's toll it's much less of an issue and you can just hold points until fighting.

Skadi just wants efficient power items in general since she's more like a mage than anything else.

Neith wants lifesteal for boxing early on when she's strongest and like Skadi wants the efficient power for her abilities. Unravel can sustain her in lane, but doesn't do her much good in a 1v1

Duotem


Memorable (10)
Posts: 149
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Branmuffin17 » January 10, 2018 9:59am | Report
Dammit Duo, give me a little slack!!!

Branmuffin17
<Moderator>


Sublime (280)
Posts: 6310
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Suavacious » January 28, 2018 1:12am | Report
Boy am I late to this party.

Trans isn't in the meta right now, and here's a couple reasons why.

1. Nemean. This item is the bane of every hunter's existence, so much so that hunters are building double lifesteal so that they can get past that damage reflection. Devo's + Asi lifesteals past the reflection, Trans + Asi does not, and Trans with no lifesteal is crazy talk. You could argue Asi passive, but if you're that low as a hunter its pretty much over for you, Asi passive is only good when 1v1ing assassins or hunters.

2. Thorns. The big difference between Trans and Devo's here is that with double lifesteal Devo's, you control when the solo has to pop thorns, because they're doing it defensively to prevent you from killing them. With Trans, they can get you low, wait for your Asi to proc, and pop thorns. Dead hunter.

3. Starting positions. Supports don't really spend time in the duo lane that much. Nobody does. Back in the days of a 2v2 duo lane it was common to have mana issues because mana use = pressure. Faster clear meant more time poking the enemy, which meant more potential kills, which meant getting an advantage. Now, advantages are earned through invading buffs, clearing buffs, farming. Trans does not help with farming because it does not help you sustain and farm. Devo's does.

4. Bumba's. This singlehandedly solves the mana problems most hunters might have by removing the mana cost of clearing camps, as well as speeding up farming. If you wanted to build Trans, you'd have to start with the T2 component, which simply isn't viable, it would actually be more difficult for you to farm the extra 1400 gold before backing with a T2 trans than it would be to farm the 2100 gold for Devo's with bumbas.

5. Devo's. No, really, this item is the reason why Trans is out of the meta. This is because Devo's is a direct counter to Trans. In a 1v1, which is the only way currently to gain an early advantage in the "duo" lane besides farming better, Devo's out-trades Trans hands down. The argument was made that Neith is better off poking Rama than trying to box him (even though her two negates the effects of his steroid but lets not talk about that), however, with Devo's, Rama can just sustain back up to full, without using any cooldowns, letting him fight her better.

But most of those points aren't going to be there in Season 5, so maybe it'll be picked up more on some characters. The new blessings do look like a better starting option than T2 Trans though.

And with regards to Ullr's mana costs, the combo(axe -> bladed -> hail) only costs 160 mana, which is less mana than your average hunter ult combo to 100-0 someone, and does more damage, on a 15 second cooldown too. This is a big reason as to why Ullr is an inherently unfair and unbalanced character, but I digress.

This was an interesting thread to stumble upon.
If you play Hercules, you're probably a bully in real life.

Suavacious
<Fighter>


Remarkable (5)
Posts: 10
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Tlaloc1050 » January 28, 2018 2:45am | Report
Suavacious wrote:

Boy am I late to this party.

Trans isn't in the meta right now, and here's a couple reasons why.

1. Nemean. This item is the bane of every hunter's existence, so much so that hunters are building double lifesteal so that they can get past that damage reflection. Devo's + Asi lifesteals past the reflection, Trans + Asi does not, and Trans with no lifesteal is crazy talk. You could argue Asi passive, but if you're that low as a hunter its pretty much over for you, Asi passive is only good when 1v1ing assassins or hunters.

2. Thorns. The big difference between Trans and Devo's here is that with double lifesteal Devo's, you control when the solo has to pop thorns, because they're doing it defensively to prevent you from killing them. With Trans, they can get you low, wait for your Asi to proc, and pop thorns. Dead hunter.

3. Starting positions. Supports don't really spend time in the duo lane that much. Nobody does. Back in the days of a 2v2 duo lane it was common to have mana issues because mana use = pressure. Faster clear meant more time poking the enemy, which meant more potential kills, which meant getting an advantage. Now, advantages are earned through invading buffs, clearing buffs, farming. Trans does not help with farming because it does not help you sustain and farm. Devo's does.

4. Bumba's. This singlehandedly solves the mana problems most hunters might have by removing the mana cost of clearing camps, as well as speeding up farming. If you wanted to build Trans, you'd have to start with the T2 component, which simply isn't viable, it would actually be more difficult for you to farm the extra 1400 gold before backing with a T2 trans than it would be to farm the 2100 gold for Devo's with bumbas.

5. Devo's. No, really, this item is the reason why Trans is out of the meta. This is because Devo's is a direct counter to Trans. In a 1v1, which is the only way currently to gain an early advantage in the "duo" lane besides farming better, Devo's out-trades Trans hands down. The argument was made that Neith is better off poking Rama than trying to box him (even though her two negates the effects of his steroid but lets not talk about that), however, with Devo's, Rama can just sustain back up to full, without using any cooldowns, letting him fight her better.

But most of those points aren't going to be there in Season 5, so maybe it'll be picked up more on some characters. The new blessings do look like a better starting option than T2 Trans though.

And with regards to Ullr's mana costs, the combo(axe -> bladed -> hail) only costs 160 mana, which is less mana than your average hunter ult combo to 100-0 someone, and does more damage, on a 15 second cooldown too. This is a big reason as to why Ullr is an inherently unfair and unbalanced character, but I digress.

This was an interesting thread to stumble upon.


Makes sense, thanks!

Tlaloc1050
<Veteran>


Established (17)
Posts: 938
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Branmuffin17 » January 28, 2018 7:54am | Report
Holy hell that was a great explanation.

Branmuffin17
<Moderator>


Sublime (280)
Posts: 6310
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Technotoad64 » January 29, 2018 7:59am | Report
Holy hell that was a great first post.

#d9ff66 #c7ff66 #b3ff66 #a1ff66 #8cff66 #7aff66 #66ff66 #66ff7a #66ff8c #66ffa1 #66ffb3 #66ffc7
#ccff33 #b4ff33 #99ff33 #81ff33 #66ff33 #4eff33 #33ff33 #33ff4e #33ff66 #33ff81 #33ff99 #33ffb4
#c0ff00 #a0ff00 #80ff00 #60ff00 #40ff00 #20ff00 #00ff00 #00ff20 #00ff40 #00ff60 #00ff80 #00ffa0
#99cc00 #81cc00 #66cc00 #4ecc00 #33cc00 #1bcc00 #00cc00 #00cc1b #cc6600 #00cc4e #00cc66 #00cc81
#739900 #619900 #4d9900 #730099 #269900 #149900 #009900 #009914 #994d00 #00993b #00994d #009961
#4d6600 #416600 #336600 #1a0066 #1a6600 #0e6600 #006600 #00660e #00661a #006627 #006633 #006641

Technotoad64
<Veteran>


Prominent (45)
Posts: 1561
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by BestMinionEver » February 6, 2018 4:08pm | Report
Only read the OP. Sorry Bran, I am sure you did some great mathematical explanation etc. but I just could not be arsed to read it (now at least).

IMO:
Get devos on every hunter that you think you can win a boxing fight with (if the playing field is even, you both get devos). This will depend on how comfortable you are on the god, the matchup and your god.

Example:
Xbal vs Apollo = trans. Because no chance in hell you win that one.
Xbal vs Neith = devos.

It pretty much boils down to if you want to be agressive or not IMO (also you have to be some what ability based to get trans).

The exceptions is Ullr who can do what ever he feels like because he is a viking.

Neith, Xbal, Medusa and Cern (mahbe more viable trans ADCs?) at least has to sacrifice pressure to pick up trans.
IGN: Marki

Jungle & Support main.

Casually tryharding ranked now and again.


Make fun of my bad plays on Twitch ;)
Is only pixels, why you haf to be mad?

BestMinionEver
<Veteran>


Distinguished (69)
Posts: 2062
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Branmuffin17 » February 6, 2018 4:21pm | Report
Yeah I got blown up on my attempted defense of Trans being viable in at least some situations for some gods.

It's S5 now though, so the addition of CDR makes it a bit more interesting to me...but Devo's is still just as strong.

And honestly, I've never preferred Trans myself...was just trying to argue for consideration of situation.

Branmuffin17
<Moderator>


Sublime (280)
Posts: 6310
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Suavacious » February 9, 2018 1:00pm | Report
Yeah Season 5 is here. Trans still isn't good for pretty much the same reasons. I think I mentioned it in my previous post but it's very hard to build into. The T3 is 1400 whereas the T3 for Devo's is half that. Even with the new blessings I think the best way to build it is to start with the T2 component, but if you don't have the perfect early game, you won't have that 1400 gold on the first back. You'll then have to build T2 boots if you don't want to fall behind, further delaying your Trans.
If you play Hercules, you're probably a bully in real life.

Suavacious
<Fighter>


Remarkable (5)
Posts: 10

Quick Reply

Please log in or sign up to post!

SMITEFire is the place to find the perfect build guide to take your game to the next level. Learn how to play a new god, or fine tune your favorite SMITE gods’s build and strategy.

Copyright © 2019 SMITEFire | All Rights Reserved