A discussion about anti-heal for ADCs:

So, getting straight to the point:

I know that guardians and warriors should build Pestilence aganist healers and/or high sustain comps, that mages can easily fit Divine Ruin on their builds and that ability-based junglers can pick Brawler's Beat Stick up without losing pretty much anything.

But... what about ADCs, both physical and magical? What about aa-based junglers? What should they build if anti heal is needed? Brawler's/Divine or Toxic Blade? Or, should they be the ones responsible for anti-heal in the first place?

What I'm trying to say is that, in my point of view, you can build Pestilence/Brawler's/Divine without losing anything. Pestilence replaces a magical defense, Brawler's replace Jotunn's/Crusher and Divine replaces Desolation/Magus. But the same can't be said about Toxic Blade. I feel that TB's stats are too different from what ADCs and aa-based gods in general are used to build.

ADCs have a pretty straightfoward build to deal with tanks and objectives, is it possible to include anti-heal in those builds without sacrificing anything? And if yes, which option should be considered?

I don't see any problem with Toxic Blade 'cause you can totally build it as the replacement for boots. If you want it earlier, then just delay an item.

All the adcs builds I've seen around has everything (power/pen/as) before the 7th item, the boot replacement.

Just look my cupid builds, you can totally fit a toxic blade as a boot replacement there and all of the builds still have the 3 bases for adcs (power/pen/as), I just might change exec into titans bane.

Aa-based hunter’s: build toxic blade (swap either o-bow, titan’s Bane or boots for it), ability-based: Build brawlers. Freya: Build Toxic Blade (divine might proc on her 1 though?), Sol/Chronos: Build either. Merc/Baka/Arachne/Kali/Erlang: Build Toxic Blade. Nem/Awilix: Build brawlers

Yeah, but which item should I replace it with?



Swapping O-Bow for Toxic Blade seems reasonable.
In the case of ability-based hunters, I'd replace Crusher for Brawler's, right?

Yeah, Freya can proc Divine with her 1. And her ult. Not with her 3 tho.
I think Sol is also better off with Toxic, but Chronos can use Divine very well due to how his 1+3 combo works.
But in any case, which item would I replace for the magical ADCs if I'm getting Toxic Blade?

I also don't know which item I should replace for Merc/Baka/Arachne/Kali/Erlang.

Well it depends on the build you were using, as to what item you would replace.

My "standard" mage ADC build is:

Bancroft's Talon > Shoes of the Magi > Demonic Grip > Telkhines Ring > Obsidian Shard > Rod of Tahuti > sell boots for either Hastened Ring or Mantle of Discord.

For Arachne and Baka I build the 3 Katanas (GB, Hastened and SCS), Exe, Qin's and BF.
For Kali and Erlang I go Crusher, Boots, SCS, Qin's, Exe, BF (Kail)/Mantle (Erlang).
For Mercury I don't know, since I don't play him LOL

Vini, I'd personally consider Ob Shard in your standard mage ADC build as optional. Depending on god (e.g. Freya), you're often better off going with the 3rd ring. And while you can chunk tanks with the combo of Demonic + Ob, that 15% pen on a squishy god is only 7 flat pen equivalence.

As for the original question, IMO, most ADCs aren't and shouldn't really be in charge of anti-heal. In the late game, one basic attack is likely to do as much damage as a standard healing spell would heal, and with typical high AS builds, it's not so much a problem. I can see it being functional for gods that might poke easily here and there (e.g. Art, Cern), and engage only when the time is right, and in those cases a BBS would be nice.

Toxic...to me, that's much less appealing. Yes, it can work in a Qin's build, and if you're, say, facing an enemy comp with 3 healers, then it might be a consideration...not only will it help with those healers, but also with boxing the enemy ADC who likely has lifesteal also. I'd consider it more for a situational solo or jungle, say Erlang, Osiris, or assassins going Qin's, like Arachne or Kali.

On the magical side, Divine is fine for Chronos or Sol. Wouldn't really consider it for Freya. Though Toxic could be considered for Freya, but wouldn't consider for Chronos/Sol.

Freya: Bancrofts, magi, demonic, toxic blade, telkhines, magus/obs shard/tahuti (sell boots for one you didn't get).

Sol: Bancrofts, pen boots, demonic, divine, telkines, obs shard/tahuti (sell boots for one you didn't get). OR: pen boots, demonic, telkhines, divine, pythags, obs shard/tahuti (sell boots for one you didn't get). OR: Pen boots, bancrofts, demonic, toxic blade, obs shard, tahuti (sell boots for telkhines/hastened).

Chronos: Pythags, cdr boots, demonic, divine ruin, telkhines, tahuti/obs shard (sell boots for one you didn't get). OR: bancrofts, pen boots, demonic, toxic blade, obs shard, tahuti. (sell boots for telkhines). OR: pen boots, warlocks, demonic, divine, obs shard, tahuti (sell boots for bancrofts/pythags or defense or telkhines/hastened).




Golden blade, hastened, stone cutting, qins, toxic blade, executioner (sell golden blade for magi's cloak or masamune or mantle or bloodforge). OR: warrior tabi, hastened, stone cutting, toxic blade, executioner, qin's sais. (Sell boots for atalanta's or alternative).



Kali: talaria/warrior, crusher, hastened, toxic blade, qin's sais, the executioner, sell warrior/crusher late for magi's cloak and stone cutting.

Erlang: Warrior/talaria, Crusher, stone cutting, toxic blade, magi's cloak, void shield/mantle/blackthorn etc... More examples: https://smiteprobuilds.com/Builds?p_filters_page=1&p_filters_search=&p_filters_god=2138&p_filters_pro=~&p_filters_opponent=~&p_filters_role=~&p_filters_league=~&p_filters_sort=~



Probably wouldn't get on Merc but: Warrior/Talaria, stone cutting, Rage, Deathbringer, toxic blade, bloodforge (Sell boots for hastened or wind demon or asi or executioner/titan's bane or magi's). OR: golden blade, stone cutting, hastened, Rage, deathbringer, toxic blade (sell golden blade for for wind demon/asi/bloodforge/magi's/exe/titans).



Possibly, again, depends on who you're playing and the rest of the build. I guess one generic example could be: Trans, Warrior, Asi/Beatstick, exe, qins, o-bow, sell boots for titan's bane. But if you want something more burst there is several variations.

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Or, as Myst said, just sell boots for your anti-heal item lategame.

Uh, Freya you can definitely go Obs Shard if you're ADC and need to shred the frontline, but you also consider Magus again since they made her 1 spread into 5 instances of damage. In regards to the low squishy pen, Freya already will have over enough dps to squishies with the rest of the items she will build.

As for Chronos/Sol, Obs Shard is absolutely functional due to their ability poke, as well as the fact that demonic needs to be stacked to be effective while in lategame teamfights you're going to need that % pen quickly to shred the front line as fast as possible.




Well it depends on how much healing there is on the enemy team, and how much antiheal teammates buy. If you're a burst mage with poly lategame then you can 100-0 targets without needing antiheal, but we're talking about ADCs here. Ideally, yes other teammates should pick up antiheal.






Im sure you can build Toxic blade just fine on Chronos/Sol as long as you don't do something like build hastened in that same build. You could consider bancrofts + typhons as well if you're itemising into toxic blade as well to help your own sustain against healing comps.

Now that I'm on a PC, just to finish my other comment, my anti-heal build would be:
Warrior Tabi, Transcendence, Asi, Ichaival/ Toxic Blade (according to my necessity), Titan's Bane and Qin's Sais.

For magic ones: Shoes of the Magi, Bancroft's Talon, Demonic Grip, Telkhines Ring, Toxic Blade, Rod of Tahuti + a situational, Obsidian Shard/ Hastened Ring...

As I said, all the builds as everything an AD Carry needs and still having Toxic Blade.