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SMITEFire Viability Ranking Thread

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Forum » Theory Crafting » SMITEFire Viability Ranking Thread 353 posts - page 33 of 36
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Devampi » July 22, 2015 8:02am | Report
Setolino wrote:

Tier list should be about how useful gods are, Hades is ****ty as Support but really good in Solo so he is A. Easy.


And that's why sub was talking about a categorized tier list aka a tier list by roles.

because Hades was meant as a support the fact that he is ****ty as it hits him in a generalities tier list.

Also dac what you say can be true but with his snarky comments he doesn't add anything and makes people take him less seriously. And you can be the best player in the game but still in this thread you can still theory craft as ****.

also seto you partly see people spewing out "********" as a lot of players don't play the game that much or are having a burn-out etc. And because MOBA's always change you can easily lose the meta.

(I'm having a major burnout on the game ever since S2 started. partly because a lot of my friends started to play DotA 2 around that period and my friends that played smite gettign a burn-out on it too. And with my hate for solo queue I won't play it (toxicity increase since it's officially launched))

Devampi
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Setolino » July 22, 2015 8:17am | Report
That would imply that Guardian = Support, which isn´t true.
"Wololol" -Age of Empires

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Devampi » July 22, 2015 9:29am | Report
Okay time to go back to some origins part. A MOBA is a combination from an RPG and a RTS (MOBA is sometimes called an ARTS). This is because warcraft 3 heroes gave the RTS it was a bit of RPG element (and all rpg share a lot of base archetypes only with different names because a ranger is something else then a gunslinger (but still they have the same job).

now if we go to look at archetypes. The guardian is equal to the tank role in a rpg. Because they have High HP and CC (which is why they normally initiate the fight) and normally also low damage (here is a flaw in class making/defining from HR as some can do a lot of damage). In a RPG the tank class normally has the role of tanking up hits and keeping the DPS characters alive. They do this with their high armour, HP, and their cc. This makes them fall into a supportive class (tanks, healers and buffers/de buffer/CC-ers are in this category)

and so you can define every archetype back to their role
(only mages fall into multiple archetypes as Aphrodite is mostly a healer (and her kit is meant for duo lane.) and the control mage goes more to a (de)buffer/cc archetype)

the other roles back to their archetype


I'm totally fine with if you go and start something of an RPG and a MOBA are different. But still they did take the archetypes from it (dota doesn't really have archetypes because dota is dota and needed to use the primary stat) as did they do with abilities and xp.
So for me the point you are going to start something like that then I know you don't know what made a MOBA.

a quote from wikipedia
Quoted:
The RPG genre has a much closer resemblance to the gameplay, only limited to an arena.

the minions and jungle monsters are what you farm (this word comes from the rpg genre too) for gold and xp.
the god you control is your character
abilities and lvling
buying items.
Titan is a big end/gamewinning boss.
the PvP part is all from an rpg (the teamfights etc)

the only thing it has from an rts was that you needed to destroy a key building and the isometric view. smite has none of those too making it fully go to an rpg limited to an arena.

if you deny this you know nothing about games!

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Janitsu » July 22, 2015 9:41am | Report
somthing lyke dis?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Setolino » July 22, 2015 9:45am | Report
ayyy lmao
"Wololol" -Age of Empires

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Subzero008 » July 22, 2015 11:47am | Report
Setolino wrote:

It´s almost as.... Mobas are not all the same, and dont follow the same rules oO

It's almost like you're saying that Smite isn't fundamentally identical to LoL. As in, the fundamentals.

Smite has class systems, just like LoL, if you haven't noticed. Divided into tank, assassins, mages, etc. They don't make any changes beyond the name, unlike HOTS or Gigantic or Dawngate, which does divide classes into nonstandard roles.

Like LoL, they have a crit system, a pen system, split magical and physical power, and even have similar or identical items. When you boil down the game to its numerical mechanics, they're identical.

They have a trilane map, the same team composition of top/mid/jungle/duo bot, two jungles, two boss monsters, etc etc.

You really don't get MOBAs, plural, if you can't see why a split tier list is necessary, and if you think that Smite is special snowflake of a game.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Devampi » July 22, 2015 12:09pm | Report
Setolino wrote:

ayyy lmao


EDIT: My bad

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Setolino » July 22, 2015 1:23pm | Report
This was posted because of Janitsu, i didnt actually read you text so far. Gonna edit this post if i did.

edit.

I dont know what this have to do with Hades still beeing a guardian since he is played as tanky mage, so still a frontline hence some would call it a supportive god, same with Cabroken or Chaac or Odin or Tyr. Its all neat that you summed up the history of MOBA that i already know of, but my statement remains the same, that not every Guardian have to be a support and that not any non guardian cant be a tanky support. I dont really understand how your comment should help you argument, because it actually supports my case.

If the point of your entire comment was to prove that MOBAs are all the same, than this was alot of wastet time on both side, yes simmelarity are there but that doesnt mean they are the same. Or its just me understandign everything in the context wrong again, but i can deal with that. Just tell me and i shut up.-
"Wololol" -Age of Empires

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Talenhiem » July 22, 2015 2:08pm | Report
Janitsu, I modified it to be more vertically friendly, but other than that it's good. (I'm still not sure how to change the dimensions in adobe CS2 tho, will fix later.) nvm got the trim to work n_n

While multiple tierlists would be unarguably a much more accessible take on the tierlisting than what we have now, it comes with the problem that you now have multiple threads that need to be moderated, rather than just one (Though I will admit, I haven't exactly been the best moderator); a general list also has the benefit of showing role flexibility, and only requires you to look at one page instead of four or five, which is at least something. The main fact about tierlists is that they're self-correcting - with enough opinions, no god will stay in a spot it doesn't belong in for long. It may be (correction, IS) a mess now, but it will sort itself out in due time.

We don't need any more talk about the differences and similarities of the different MOBAs; if you still want to talk about it, I'd recommend opening another theorycrafting thread for it.

And here's a thought: instead of complaining about how the list has a lot of erroneous placements, list where you think said misplacements should go, to at least bring up discussion on it.

Again, I apologize for my lack of moderation in both quantity and quality.

ANYWAY, let's bring up some previous nominations to at least get the ball rolling again:

Chang'e: A- -> A
Mercury: C -> Anything higher
Isis: A+ -> S
Ratatoskr: Unranked -> ???

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by dacoqrs » July 22, 2015 2:26pm | Report
My personal opinions... Chang'e should stay where she is, Mercury should maybe be brought up to a C+, Isis is definitely not S tier, and Rat is probably B+, maybe A-.
Thanks to Ferrum for making the sig pic! He's beast af people.
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