When building for Hunters as ADCs, these are the main stats I consider and how I approach my builds. Note that these are not necessarily meta / pro builds, and are not claimed as being best, but there's a method to my madness.
TL;DR for most, sorry. If you're willing to read, I'd love a constructive discussion.
Understand that there are a few points that affect how I build, and definitely not everyone will agree.
I don't like too much build inefficiency. If not building into Silverbranch Bow, I would rather brush just below the AS cap of 2.5 - rather than exceed it - by changing an item. While I also don't prefer mixing protection reduction w/ % penetration, sometimes more pen (and adding % pen to the build) is too good to pass up.
I hate the concept of benefitting from overcapping (i.e. Silverbranch Bow). I do acknowledge its effectiveness in the current meta, but I don't have to like it.
I don't always build for max DPS through the match. I understand concepts of power spiking, but am not always aiming for early-game dominance. In some cases, I'm satisfied with a general stalemate in laning phase, instead looking for efficiency of stats for the end build and focusing on what the ADC should be doing late-game (e.g. objectives).
So here we go. Reference again for my hunter DPS spreadsheet is here.
Starter Items
Bluestone Pendant: it does feel good for early laning due to the HP5/MP5, and obviously makes more sense for hybrid or full ability gods/builds. I don't like it on gods that only have 2 damaging abilities; would prefer to take as much advantage as possible for gods that have 3 or 4 damaging abilities. The upgrades can be functional depending on need, or you can sell it late for a standard T3 item.
Best on Ullr and Neith IMO. I've liked it okay on Medusa when I've built it on her.
Leather Cowl: I have always liked the utility this item provides. The very high base AS (when teamed) with the upgrade can work well with an AS overcap / Silverbranch Bow build, and is also often used for crit builds.
My personal preference when building crit is to get crit chance above 50%, so my strong preference in this combo is to increase crit chance w/ Rage rather than going with the Shurikens (e.g. Wind Demon + Poisoned Star) + Deathbringer). I don't personally like when people build with WD and DB and no other crit which I've seen pros do...just doesn't feel like enough.
I feel this works best in 2x Shuriken builds to boost crit chance significantly above 50% total. Not very flexible in build direction, as core would be Ornate Arrow + Wind Demon + The Executioner + Deathbringer at bare minimum. This leaves only 2 spots for lifesteal + additional crit (PS/SS) or other utility.
Death's Toll: Yes, this item is considered underpowered right now. That said, you can get some insane health sustain when boxing when upgrading to Death's Embrace + either Devourer's Gauntlet or Asi...it can help push past standard anti-heal, but if you do this, you always need to be targeting very high base AS to get the most out of it.
Honestly I like it on the gods that are pure basic attackers and that have no steroid; building toward max AS in combination with Devo's or Asi + Qin's Sais feels good for sustain.
Manikin Scepter: This is nice for high early pressure, and helps with jungle clearing speed. To get the most out of it, you should be looking for that early pressure to help you steal jungle camps...getting more jungle camps = better sustain. Can help some with earlier objectives e.g. Gold Fury. If facing 2x basic attackers consider upgrading to Manikin Mace, but otherwise I'd sell it late for a full T3 item. Gods like Iza should use this effectively.
Crit vs. Qin's / Attack Speed
Crit builds can be legitimate on almost any ADC, even those without steroids, and even those that are typically considered ability-based. The gods with steroids can build a bit lower base AS, focusing more on crit items, power, and pen, and take advantage of their steroids that way.
Expect better DPS with crit builds, along with better jungle objective damage.
Crit builds can go a few ways:
Ornate Arrow upgrade + Wind Demon + Deathbringer + additional crit optional. Pretty high base AS in this build. Best for no or low consistent steroid gods.
Hunter's Cowl upgrade + Wind Demon + Deathbringer + additional crit suggested. High base AS in this build. Also best for no or low consistent steroid gods.
Hunter's Cowl upgrade + Rage + Deathbringer + additional crit optional but not needed. Lower base AS, strong for high steroid gods. If you build more AS through items like Asi, Ichaival, or additional crit in Wind Demon or Poisoned Star, this can be good for no or low consistent steroid gods.
Other combos may be viable but these are the ones I feel are most viable.
So why would you go with a high AS / Qin's type build?
Firstly, when is it best to build close to the cap, and when is it okay to blast past the cap in combination with Silverbranch Bow? IMO, if the god has no or a low AS steroid, you're not going to be able to get quite as much out of Silverbranch Bow. Yes, you can build all attack speed items, but you won't get the same benefit as if someone like Artemis would. So feel free to blast past the cap using a god with a strong steroid, but I'd just just brush the cap with others.
Depending on build, you can get additional use out of basic attacks with Odysseus' Bow's teamfight damage potential. O-Bow, with no power, really shouldn't be built in crit builds, because crits multiply damage based on power.
If facing a very heal-centric enemy team, it's easier to fit Toxic Blade into an AS build compared to Shadowsteel Shuriken in a crit build.
If you're only brushing the AS cap, there's usually more flexibility to build higher amounts of penetration. This can really help with structure takedown, and Qin's + high pen should be able to take enemy tanks down easily.
If the enemy tank is Geb or the tank builds Spectral Armor, it counters crit damage fairly hard, allowing a Qin's build to out-damage it significantly.
If you have other teammates that are building into crit, it's more likely the enemy will look to counter your build with Spectral Armor.
High base pen from an item like Titan's Bane can allow a god semi-reliant on abilities to deal more damage with said abilities.
Building for Power Spikes / Early Pressure
With the removal of Boots/Shoes from the game in Patch 8.7, it has allowed for more aggressive early item building as we no longer have to worry about fitting them into early parts of the build. This means stronger early game potential and quicker full build completion (no selling boots, buying Elixir, etc.).
This has also led to Ichaival being one of the most popular early items in many builds. Freeing the slot typically reserved for Ninja Tabi, and adding a small amount of MP5 to Leather Cowl has also gained popularity for Cowl and allowed for builds to bypass the early standard Devourer's Gauntlet. Asi is also popular for a recent power buff, and allows for stronger boxing than Devo's.
One huge thing about this build...it's cheap compared to a standard crit build. 13,850 gold for that build. Comparing to a build using a crit build... Leather Cowl ( Hunter's Cowl) -> Devourer's Gauntlet -> The Executioner -> Wind Demon -> Deathbringer -> Poisoned Star = 14,700 gold. If we move to a Trans crit build, switching Devo's, WD, and PS for Trans, Asi, and Rage, that would be 14,900 gold.
Thus we see a cheaper and smoother power curve in the AS build, which is great in helping to win early laning and transition more quickly to mid/late objectives and teamfights.
All that said, my personal mindset for laning is less on winning that early game. I'm okay aiming for a stalemate early and having what I consider to be a more effective build late-game. Keep in mind also, your team has 5 people; it's not just reliant on you winning your lane to win the match.
Right now, I typically prefer crit builds for most gods.[/list]
I'm going to provide a few build examples for some of my preferred gods now, and provide explanations for these choices.
This build gets Cupid's AS (expecting Cowl passive is active) to 2.355...pretty close to the cap. He doesn't have an actively triggered steroid, so he can always expect high AS in this build.
DPS against an enemy with 70 prots is 1,225.8. DPS against an enemy with 250 prots is 626.3.
A bit of CDR from Trans can help with more Heart Bombs and Field of Love.
This build doesn't have quite as high of DPS potential as the first build against squishy gods, but gives some added utility through the MS in WD along with a slow and damage reduction in PS.
AS is close to max at 2.403.
DPS against an enemy with 70 prots is 1146. DPS against an enemy with 250 prots is 635.8 (higher pen due to WD passive).
In comparison, let me show a meta Cowl / AS build:
Just the first 4 items (assuming upgraded Hunter's) push you a bit past the AS cap. Ichaival definitely provides boxing potential, and O-Bow will help with extra damage in a teamfight, but that's about it for this build's utility.
DPS against a 2,000 HP, 70 prot enemy is 794.15, with O-Bow providing an extra 142.7 damage against that target every 4th hit. DPS against a 3,000 HP, 250 prot enemy is 526.5 + around 80 for the O-Bow proc every 4th hit. This only beats out the crit builds above if the enemy has built Spectral Armor.
Don't suggest the AS build for Cupid based on this.
Medusa
Going to keep this writeup simpler, not going to provide DPS values, but just explain the concept and what I value from the build.
Trans gives Medusa added CDR since she's got a lot of function and damage potential in all of her abilities.
It also gives her a ton of mana. When farming, being able to use Acid Spray on a wave and then Viper Shot on a jungle camp really speeds camp clear. Being able to use these often without worry about running out of mana is pretty significant for me.
Her AS at level 20 is 2.065 without Viper Shot. Viper maxes her AS temporarily. I feel this level of AS is sufficient for her burst potential.
The Rage + Deathbringer combo provides plenty of crit chance (70%). Cowl provides added utility in teamfights along with added MS when she's alone.
Alternatively, you could grab Gilded Arrow / Ornate Arrow. DPS will actually be even higher than with Cowl, but without the added utility.
By far my preferred build direction for her.
Cernunnos
Cern has no AS steroid in his kit. While you can make a crit build with higher DPS, I really like a few things with the following build.
Death's Embrace plus Devourer's Gauntlet gives some incredible sustain. It's not always about max DPS, this one can allow you to maintain health in an elongated fight or heal up to max from a single jungle camp or minion wave. Keep in mind, this build doesn't have very high DPS. It's a build for sustain, partially countering any anti-heal and to outlast an enemy team (especially those that have a bit less burst).
I actually prefer getting O-Bow immediately after finishing Devo's. Specifically, outside of his ult, his only CC and easy poke is from his 2. Getting O-Bow helps clear the minion wave more quickly, allowing him to save his 2 for said poke / CC. It also sets up Qin's Sais' need for attack speed.
If you don't like that, I would go with a solid AS-base crit build. Something like this.
This one has very high crit chance (85%) and the same AS.
Anyway, that's a bit about how I think about builds and build structure. Again, some of this probably doesn't align with the current meta, and I know there are some weaknesses, but I also think there are alternatively some different strengths that have made these build types feel good to me. Preference based on god and kit.
Bow Obow Qin’s Build: Cowl, Ichaival, Exe/Atalanta’s, Qin's, Obow, Silverbranch, Hunter's Cowl (if went Atalanta’s early could sell Ichaival late for Exe)
Bow Obow Qin’s Build (low base AS Hunter variant): Cowl, Ichaival, Exe/Atalanta’s, Qin's, Obow, Titan’s, Hunter's Cowl (if went Atalanta’s early could sell Ichaival late for Exe)
(An alternative build path for the bow builds is to get Asi after Ichaival, get Obow or Silverbranch/Titan’s 5th and Sell Cowl for Silverbranch/Titan’s or Obow instead of getting Hunter’s Cowl
Bow Crit Build: Cowl, Ichaival (could sell late for Bloodforge), Exe, Wind Demon, Deathbringer, Filler crit (Poison/Shadow/Fail-Not), Hunter's Cowl
Trans Qin’s Obow Build: Cowl/Bluestone, Trans, Asi, Exe, Qin's, sell BS/Cowl for Obow, Titan's/Silverbranch
Trans Crit Build: Cowl/Bluestone, Trans, Asi, Exe, Wind, sell BS/Cowl for Deathbringer, Poison/Shadowsteel
Trans Power Pen Build: Bluestone, Trans, Asi, Crusher/Brawlers/Jotunn’s, Titan’s, Heartseeker, Sell Bluestone for Obow or upgrade to Brooch
Bow Obow Qin’s Build: Cowl, Ichaival, Exe/Atalanta’s, Qin's, Obow, Silverbranch, Hunter's Cowl (if went Atalanta’s early could sell Ichaival late for Exe)
Bow Obow Qin’s Build (low base AS Hunter variant): Cowl, Ichaival, Exe/Atalanta’s, Qin's, Obow, Titan’s, Hunter's Cowl (if went Atalanta’s early could sell Ichaival late for Exe)
(An alternative build path for the bow builds is to get Asi after Ichaival, get Obow or Silverbranch/Titan’s 5th and Sell Cowl for Silverbranch/Titan’s or Obow instead of getting Hunter’s Cowl
Bow Crit Build: Cowl, Ichaival (could sell late for Bloodforge), Exe, Wind Demon, Deathbringer, Filler crit (Poison/Shadow/Fail-Not), Hunter's Cowl
Trans Qin’s Obow Build: Cowl/Bluestone, Trans, Asi, Exe, Qin's, sell BS/Cowl for Obow, Titan's/Silverbranch
Trans Crit Build: Cowl/Bluestone, Trans, Asi, Exe, Wind, sell BS/Cowl for Deathbringer, Poison/Shadowsteel
Trans Power Pen Build: Bluestone, Trans, Asi, Crusher/Brawlers/Jotunn’s, Titan’s, Heartseeker, Sell Bluestone for Obow or upgrade to Brooch
I didn't say they were all meta, I just said they were all the main possibilities until we know for sure what the meta will shape up to be / what builds will be possible, post mid season patch. Also the Bumba's build there is a Ullr only build.
Hey Bran, Just Came Back to the game after a long break.
I'm Curious on what build gives more damage to Heimdallr, Qin's or full crit, since he has higher basic attack damage, but can't deal full crit damage,
Additionally, I wonder how much dps Charybdis does with a silverbranch AS build compared to a crit/Qin's build, since she has very fast AS at max stacks of her passive.
Silverbranch is built in every ADC build right now
I'd probably avoid crit on Heim lately cause the crit part of his passive has been nerfed enough by now you should not bother with it on him, unless there's 0 spectrals on enemy team then you could potentially consider it.
Past what Kriega said (he's likely the most knowledgeable on meta builds for all hunters), I think you're also good in experimenting and seeing what actually feels best.
That said, your common build direction on him will probably be either Temper or Cowl, Trans, Asi or Exe (Ferocious Glyph), Qin's, Silver and O-Bow. If you plan to go Temper, grab Asi for your lifesteal. If you go Cowl and you're willing to have lower lifesteal, switch out Asi for Exe...the late-game combo of Exe + Silver is very strong overall pen effect, even if there are some inefficiencies with how prot reduction and % pen work. If you don't go/want Trans, you can consider Dom.
As for Charybdis, her AS at level 20 and full tide is very strong. You say Silver / AS build vs Qin's/crit...but you'd go Qin's in the Silver / AS build (I assume you know this). To give you an idea, if you have a base/core of Qin's Sais, Silverbranch Bow, Odysseus' Bow and Asi, at max tide you're already at 2.49 AS (right at the border of max). You have a variety of combinations you can actually do with her and get great function.
Add Death's Embrace and Dominance: you'll stick right at the max AS without going over, and you'll gain a ton of pen from Dom and you'll have amazing sustain with Embrace without being inefficient with the build.
I always encourage to experiment some. I've always had a lot of fun w/ Embrace, O-Bow and Ichaival due to her attack chain. Otherwise, you can always go with the crit build, which also works fine.
Thank You for the advice, Heimdallr is one of my most favorite hunters due to his unique attack chain and high damage abilities, so I been tinkering my build for him a lot.
Recently i have been running Death's Embrace, Transcendance, Alantia bow, Qin's, and finally Wind Demon and Deathbringer (poison glyph) for balanced ability and basic attack damage
As for Charybis, I have been looking for a good build that works on her.
You could try subbing out Trans and getting Ichaival. No stacking issues early, you gain early boxing potential, and it's a tad cheaper with more early AS. If you do that, then you probably should go with the Temper upgrade as with the rest of the items, you'll overcap AS by a lot.
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