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Balancing Discussion: The Real Deal

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Forum » General Discussion » Balancing Discussion: The Real Deal 384 posts - page 8 of 39
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by SpreadTheMadness » August 4, 2014 2:40pm | Report
Subzero008 wrote:

Enrage is basically taunt (aka force them to move toward you and basic attack) only less restricted. You aren't forced to move or attack, but you can only basic attack and cast abilities and move toward the guy who used the CC effect.

So every skillshot or ability has to be targeting the person who enraged you. Technically, you don't have to do anything, or even move - but you can't attack anyone else, you can't aim toward anyone else, and you can't move sideways or backward.

The engrager (the god with this hypothetical CC) is Ares. Target is enemy gods.


I like the idea but i'm wondering how they would make it work in relation to using abilities. With every ability in the game (with the exception of Nemesis's ult and Geb's shield) being a skillshot how would you make it so you can only target Ares without locking the camera? Or would you lock the camera and have more Hun Batz wiplash?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Subzero008 » August 4, 2014 3:57pm | Report
Locked camera, like Taunt.

I dunno about the chains, JD. It seems rather unnecessary, but yes, that's the general idea. I'm for simply having CC with no damage, or alternatively, grant some kind of stat buff to Ares, like a physical power boost so his autos deal some damage, even if he's a magical god.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Jordenito » August 4, 2014 9:37pm | Report
The chains were just an iconic idea, because they are his symbol as of his current kit. When I get home I will make the Ares summary and then we'll move on to Hades.

Maybe instead of a power bonus give him damage reflection? Seems to go better with the Enrage idea. (I know who desperately you want the auto attacks of the God of War himself to do something other than noodle-slap people)

BTW, from Sunday the 10th I won't be here for 2 weeks, so could you take over this thread sub? (Don't you dare start Guan and Vulcan without me!)

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Subzero008 » August 4, 2014 9:57pm | Report
Uh, sure.

Damage reflection actually sounds like a cool idea. In fact, that suits Ares perfectly. Let's do something like a flat 30% (40? 50?) damage reflection on everything. Flat is best, otherwise it'd be worthless early.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Jordenito » August 5, 2014 2:23am | Report
If we were to give it flat, there would be no reason to level this skill as the CC duration is also flat. I think we'll just give it small scalings. Like 23/26/29/32/35%. I think it's also a little bit better because early on, he won't have much protections, so the damage he'll take won't be mitigated so much and so the reflection would be strong.


ares summary

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Jordenito » August 5, 2014 3:08am | Report
Hades




Problems

Hades is labelled as a Guaridan, but his kit is more mage-like. The problem is, either as a mage or as a Guardian, he doesn't do the job.

As a mage, he has some burst, but compared to most other burst mages, his burst is just, bad. And too much situaitonal, as well. If he doesn't have minions near him when he uses Devour Souls, the damage is just pathetic. And even when he does have minions near him, since the nerf, that damage isn't effective.

His CC is decent, but easily countered and not as potent as you'd want a Guardian to have. His ultimate is easily countered by either beads, a leap/dash, or a CC-immunity granting ultimate. Granted, the damage on his ultimate is very high, but because of its counterability, and because he has to put himself still in one place, he cannot endure that much. If he builds protections, his ult's damage wouldn't be effective. If he builds power, he will be a sitting duck.

His darkness shroud is good, but because of the need for the target to be affected by his Blight to make it fear, that silence isn't effective, and it doesn't really provide with instant peel, as opposed to Confound or Belly Flop.


I suggest a full, or a partial rework, that would overhaul his kit, or at the very least, make it fit a certain role. It could be either a Mage or a Guardian, doesn't really matter, but he has to have a defined role. I'd prefer him to be a Guardian, just because we already have 2,000 Mages and only a few Guardians, but a Mage could also work.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Mekali » August 5, 2014 3:24am | Report
Jordenito wrote:
Hades




Problems

Hades is labelled as a Guaridan, but his kit is more mage-like. The problem is, either as a mage or as a Guardian, he doesn't do the job.

As a mage, he has some burst, but compared to most other burst mages, his burst is just, bad. And too much situaitonal, as well. If he doesn't have minions near him when he uses Devour Souls, the damage is just pathetic. And even when he does have minions near him, since the nerf, that damage isn't effective.

His CC is decent, but easily countered and not as potent as you'd want a Guardian to have. His ultimate is easily countered by either beads, a leap/dash, or a CC-immunity granting ultimate. Granted, the damage on his ultimate is very high, but because of its counterability, and because he has to put himself still in one place, he cannot endure that much. If he builds protections, his ult's damage wouldn't be effective. If he builds power, he will be a sitting duck.

His darkness shroud is good, but because of the need for the target to be affected by his Blight to make it fear, that silence isn't effective, and it doesn't really provide with instant peel, as opposed to Confound or Belly Flop.


I suggest a full, or a partial rework, that would overhaul his kit, or at the very least, make it fit a certain role. It could be either a Mage or a Guardian, doesn't really matter, but he has to have a defined role. I'd prefer him to be a Guardian, just because we already have 2,000 Mages and only a few Guardians, but a Mage could also work.


Now i regret buying Hades... I prefer Sobek over him...

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Kalafalafakah » August 5, 2014 9:37am | Report
Personally I really like the idea of Hades ult but I also think it really needs some changes. If you want it to be less easily countered you could take leaps/dashes out of the mix by making it similar to Poseidon's Whirlpool or Ares Shackles where it disables movement abilities. Then the enemy would need a cc immunity ability or beads. That still leaves it pretty easy to counter though... Also as a guardian ult I think it should do solid damage but be more focused on hindering enemies. Maybe instead of Hades gaining protections during his ult he could have a bit of flat damage reduction? Also I find that his Shroud of Darkness mainly just seems to be good for saving himself unless an enemy has had Blight already applied by your teleport or a basic. Maybe you could just make it a fear that applies blight? maybe with some other helpful effect if blight was applied?

on a side note I think something like a blind would be cool on Shroud of Darkness Instead of something like Ra's Divine Light where it flashes their screen white it could turn it black like it is actually being shrouded in darkness... It may not be all that feasible or smart but I thought it was just a fun idea that I would put out there.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Devampi » August 5, 2014 11:47am | Report
well On Hades
His 1 can definitely stay as his initiation.
His 2 I find it a good one but the silence is compared to other guardians cc really short.
His 3 I get the idea so you can heal a bit but it's just way too worthless when your supposed to be a tank.
His ult is really easily countered but if you put an cripple on it the damage can get so high it would get way too OP.

for his 2: I like the idea of some sort of blind that kalafa gave
for his 3: totally change it
His ult: I can't make an good decision on this one.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Subzero008 » August 5, 2014 2:59pm | Report
I suggest a rework into something both styles of Hades players would be used to. Basically, rework him to be a magical melee bruiser.

(His fear, honestly, I think is overpowered - I always end up going in the worst possible direction - and it has a 11 second cooldown at max rank. It's just RNG land, which annoys me.)

Firstly, his passive needs a complete rework. No more Blight, no more bonus effects, no more forced autoattack synergy. Instead, give him a Lifedrain Aura - basically, it's still called Blight, but in a 30-foot circle around him, Hades constantly deals 1/1.1/1.2/1.3/1.4/1.5% of an enemy's maximum health as damage while they are in this aura, and damage dealt is returned to him as healing. This gives him good in lane sustain in the early game, and with some penetration, can be a strong source of sustained damage in a fight, if building him as a bruiser. As a support tank, it'll give him in lane sustain and early game power. This damage dealt is halved against non-gods, as otherwise he'd wipe the Fire Giant and/or Titan too easily. This will also reinforce the close-range feel of the current Hades, and is an analogue to his old Devour Souls.

His Death From Below will have the slow added in as a permanent feature, but the radius reduced to 15 feet. It's a utility/damage skill, seems fine as-is, with more reliable CC added.

Shroud of Darkness now deals moderate damage (90/140/190/240/290 maybe? 70% scalings), and has a shortened cooldown (12-8 seconds). Silence reduced to 1.1-1.5 seconds, and have sharply decreased vision for the duration. Again, utility skill, useful against casters, and sorta useful in the duo lane, at least to interrupt and stall abilities like Frost Breath, Roll Out, etc.

Devour Souls is just a bad idea. Makes him overreliant on minion waves, and makes him completely worthless for damage late game. Needs a rework. With the damage redistributed to Shroud of Darkness, I think there's some leeway for a more drastic rework, rather than the comparatively small ones. Specifically, a passive and an active.

Soul Rend:

Passive: Your basic attacks deal 20/30/40/50/60 (+3% of the target's maximum health) as bonus damage (+10% of your magical power). This damage is increased by 10/15/20/25/30 (+3% of the target's maximum health) (+10% of your magical power) against targets affected by CC.

Active: Your next basic attack silences and slows enemies by 20/250/30/35/40% for 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds.

Cooldown: 9/8/7/6/5 seconds.

As a guardian, this will give you the damage output that you're used to, as tank Hades. For bruisers, its a source of sustainable damage and CC. It's also a close range skill.

His ultimate is going to remain relatively unchanged. (Perhaps renamed to Devour Souls?) Firstly, damage reduction, to a safe, sane, 250/300/350/400/450 damage (+20% of your magical power) over 5 seconds. Second, the damage his passive deals is doubled for the duration. Thirdly, the pulling effect is descreased to the level of Poseidon's whirpool. FINALLY, YOU CAN MOVE.

This is still going to be a support skill, as you will slow down enemies as they attempt to get away from you, the difference is, aside from the one guy you'll be moving toward, people without an escape will be able to get away from you. This will pretty much play the same role as the old ultimate, but with less damage and less CC in exchange for mobility. Hopefully, the base damage and scalings are both okay so that pure tank and bruiser look equally attractive.

Ah, and the bonus protections are removed. Again, to force guys to buy tank items. No more mage Hades shenanigans here.

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