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Kriega1's Blog

Blog Posts: 22 Views: 60921 Comments: 223

Kriega1

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Zapman Hunter Building guide

Views: 3934 Kriega1

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(401) |

Alright, I'll also put in my 2 cents.

Like Salad said, I'll never claim I can play ADC at their level...and there's also no way I can even hold my own against them, lol.

Now, I feel he makes good points overall. I also have a problem with a couple of his choices.

Ichaival

Titan's Bane

Now for some other comments.

Salad talked about preferring Trans a lot of the time. I absolutely feel it has value, even for true basic attackers. Again, we're talking non-SPL level. In regular use, Trans has function, especially if the god has some form of sustain (e.g. Cern's Spring, Jing's ability to get back to lane quickly, having early healing from a Sylv or Terra or something). Its high power is always appreciated, and late game when you might be out for extended times, in a teamfight, going to objectives, etc., not worrying about mana is very useful. I can tell you that when using , being able to spam the use of to more quickly take down targets is nice, and you CAN run out of mana. Having her ult up a bit more quickly due to its CDR is also nice. And this is going with Medusa with basic attack focus, and not building things like ...also don't feel she needs/wants O-Bow all that much.

I agree in general with Myst on using Trans over Devo's, though a Devo's AS route is fine...his AS steroid is constant, not activated, so a Qin's route there is fine...you may get less use out of his abilities, but if you're playing him like a traditional basic attack hunter, that's fine. I also think I'd prefer Trans on Chern.

(13) |

I watched the video a few minutes after he posted it. He makes some solid points, with good explanations on starter options and item choices. I’ll definitely edit some of my hunter builds based on this video.

Yesterday, I went on his stream and asked how he would build 4 specific hunters that I had a hard time classifying as AA or Ability based. The response was:
: Devo’s;
: Devo’s (something I disagree with);
: Devo’s;
: Trans (but going a Devo’s route afterwards).

Also, I love how he put Jotunn’s Wrath and on the thumbnail but he doesn’t even mention these items LOL

(143) |

wrote:

Cupid: Devo’s (something I disagree with);

I mean I never see Cupid anyway but Crusher has pros and cons on him so it's really just up to Asi third on him if you go trans. I mean he's more of a hybrid anyway so Devo's is fine.

wrote:

: Trans (but going a Devo’s route afterwards).

Explain? He mentioned both as viable or something else?

wrote:

Also, I love how he put Jotunn’s Wrath and Heartseeker on the thumbnail but he doesn’t even mention these items LOL

I think it's meant to be a running joke about clickbait or something. Like how Wlfy and Fineokay I believe started posting clickbait thumbnails as a joke. I think Rexsi started it too at one point.

(13) |

wrote:

Explain? He mentioned both as viable or something else?

When I asked “These hunters should go Devo’s or Trans?” his answer was: “Xbal should go Trans, the other 3 Devo’s”. I imagine Xbal should go for an AA route afterwards, with Asi/O-Bow, and not Crusher/Asi because that wouldn’t make sense.

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(30) |

Now I'm no Zapman and I wont try to claim I can play adc at his level. At best I can hold my own against the likes of him and Barra.

Devourer's Gauntlets obviously give you better sustain. At the cost of notable damage output. However you gain earlier objective pressure and a bit more freedom on back times. However a trans build path is often stronger in the lategame and with the addition of the late game boots potion you can swap boots late for something like .

With you're sacrificing sustain on most gods in exchange for notably higher power and ABILITY SUSTAIN (Important). However you lose objective pressure and have to back more predictably until you get something like online if you choose to do so. It allows for kore aggressive play in the form of lenient ability usage with not needing to worry about mana.

I think a lot of it comes down to preference. My aggressive playstyle often sees me running Trans on most gods.

There are pros and cons to both. It comes down to personal preference and to a more in-depth analysis, what your team needs out of your build in the early game.

(72) |

There are some gods which is hard to recommend Devo, as . HB is extremely dependent of % scaling to be effective and he already has his own heal that also is dependent of % power to be effective so, why build Devo on him? At least for me, or you stack on or don't stack anything and build something else.

is another one who I had problems with devo. Yes, you have much more sustain but you are always out of mana since he needs to use 2 skills to execute his combo. Also when with trans, his skills hit like a freaking horse, so nowadays I would build trans on him too.

Hou Yi can build both having the strengths and the weakness you mentioned.

Xbal can build both though I wouldn't build trans on him 'cause I had better results with devo.

(143) |

"don't stack anything and build something else." - Like what? Bloodforge?

(72) |

? is not a bad option too if you build it later as a 5th or 6th item.

(143) |

boots, asi and then what?

(72) |

In fact I would build what is already in my guide as a non-stack suggestion:
, / (depending on the match/matchup).

Then if going into crits: , , + a situational (, wind demon or ).

If not going into crits: , , and .

Remember I'm talking about and not a general build.

(143) |

Going crit with ichaival is just bad because you have no bulk power (like a stacked devo's or trans) until you get those ichaival stacks. Besides, ichaival is just expensive for what it offers.

Also silverbranch is okay on maybe 1 god ().

(72) |

I'm pretty OK with Ichai, I think there's no problem with it and the price is fair for what it offers. Yes, the idea is to "replace" devo and trans power with ichai and it worked pretty ok on my tests.

About Silver, I never liked this item very much but it work decently giving me some extra 30 or 40 power in the build. If you are not going to build Silver then you should change exec into to avoid unnecessary AS overcapping and build something else with no AS.

(401) |

I feel is absolutely fine with crits (but Ich with crits probably should be built as a late-game item). No way it's "just bad because you have no bulk power." You'll stack the 3 hits quickly (and it can be stacked on minions), it'll be fine in a bigger fight where you'll likely maintain those stacks, and the DPS is great.

But we're maybe talking about 2 things...Ich being okay with crits, and Ich being built early.

Let's say level 15, enemy has 60 phys prots. Using Rama as base, no steroid considered in these values.

Warrior + Ich + Asi. 6,700 gold. 198 DPS no Ich stacks, 251 DPS with full stacks.
Warrior + Devo's + O-Bow. Cost 6,000 gold. 179 base DPS, not considering the passive.

Give and take. 700 gold more expensive for Ich/Asi, but higher general DPS, PLUS the added AS advantage, and higher power potential for ability use. That's the take for getting it early.

But really, we should also consider Ich in general...late build, it's great in a crit build, and the need to stack doesn't make it bad for crits...that's just absurd.

Level 20, enemy prots = 70.

Ninja + Devo's + Rage + Exe + DB + Ich. 745 average DPS no Ich stacks, 859 average DPS full Ich stacks.
Ninja + Devo's + Rage + Exe + DB + Titan's. 669 average DPS.

Seriously, how do you say Ich's bad with crits, Kriega?

(And reason Ich early isn't good for crits is due to having to delay one of the main items...War + Ich + Asi means you're getting crits 4th and delaying Exe to 5th, or getting Exe 4th and very significantly delaying crits.)

(143) |

Ichaival is much more expensive than O-bow which is why it’s not seen third typically in Qins/high Attack speed builds. As for crit builds, having trans or Devourers means you already have the higher power needed for crit and in the case of Devourers you don’t need to sacrifice an item slot for lifesteal. Also the tier 1 of both trans or Devourers are better in lane than tier 1 bow (unless you went tier 1 boots but that’s more of an SPL thing typically). Also exe + titan’s is necessary lategame to have relevant and quick tank dps quickly without just relying on stacking exe. Furthermore, ichaival is bad for ability use because it’s forcing you to build the ichaival stacks for the extra power to be relevant for ability scalings. I’m not sure if ichaival stacks of objectives/structures but if it does, and if it had a longer buff duration than 3s I could see it’s viability more.

(401) |

Those are reasonable points in general, but I still disagree that it's not a solid item. I find Ichaival has definite function. And my generally proposed use is late-game at this point, and at that stage, 500 gold isn't so much.

You also don't just spam all ability use at the beginning. Sometimes you're exchanging first, and then use some abilities. That statement is just not accurate to how fights go sometimes.

And you're never going to immediately blow up a tank. Getting an item like TB that does very little against squishies just to kill tanks in 1 or 2 hits more quickly is just not worth it, IMO, unless again you're looking at multiple tanky enemies.

We can agree to disagree if you'd like, but you will never convince me that Ichaival is a bad situational item.

(143) |

Yes sometimes it can be useful if you already traded autos, but this is an early game scenario typically, and ichaival isn’t cost effective to have early game. In quite a lot of situations you want to poke/trade with abilities first, especially when playing someone like Ullr who will poke often with his Bow 3 or if he catches someone with his axe 1 then he can do the whole combo. “Getting an item like TB that does very little against squishies just to kill tanks in 1 or 2 hits more quickly is just not worth it, IMO, unless again you're looking at multiple tanky enemies.” - depends on the game, and who is a threat, because getting it can be very worth it, especially when your team is lacking the necessary tank shred. It’s good to catch an out of position tank to immediately make the next teamfight a 4 vs 5. I don’t think that ichaival can never be built but it isn’t a good replacement for your typical Devourers or trans you want on a hunter, and in the case of trans you have to also sacrifice a slot for lifesteal (asi), so gives even less reason to build ichaival. In some builds you even overcap Attack speed if you built ichaival which means you’re better off getting bloodforge. I think if you went a devo’s/boots/Rage/exe/DB/titans build I could see selling boots for ichaival, but I think Asi would be the better option, heck, you could even consider O-Bow, or, Qins against high health targets. But I won’t say the item is terrible without some proper testing, so i’ll Consider it situational.

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Zapman Hunter Building guide

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