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Here I go with Bellona again...

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Forum » General Discussion » Here I go with Bellona again... 12 posts - page 2 of 2
Permalink | Quote | +Rep by Branmuffin17 » May 7, 2019 3:59pm | Report
Hey Silent,

So let's see. First, your most recent comment...I personally don't know if it's best that you use a smurf account for trying your experimental builds. Now that you're a lot more comfortable with Bellona and her kit, even if the build is bad, you might see some success and get what I'd probably call a false positive. I think it's best if you use it in your current games on your regular account, so you have a better idea if the build is going to be viable in matches at your normal level.

I do have an alt account. I am using it for 2 things. 1) helping newer players learn the game, where I'm likely to choose a tanky god (or a god that heals) and not go for noob kills...using the account allows them to play more at their level. 2) for my own Conquest matches, to get more comfortable with the process in roles I'm not comfortable with in general. I plan to do this for upcoming jungle matches with Awilix, as I really want to get more familiar with her and Jungling in general.

Anyway, on to build concepts and considering specific items in general.
  • Hydra's Lament: the reason both Kriega and I said it's probably not good for Bell is because the item really benefits in specific gods hands. Those are the ones that do a quick ability and then a follow-up basic, and then likely another ability, and a basic. This way you get more Hydra's passive procs. Kriega gave the example of Achilles. Why? His Combat Dodge (dash) allows him to get a basic after the dash...and THEN, as long as you hit the enemy with the first dash, you can do ANOTHER dash, and ANOTHER basic. 2 Hydra's procs off of one ability that chains on itself very well. THEN, you can also activate your his steroid, Radiant Glory, and get a basic, and you can get a basic in easily after Shield of Achilles, especially if you get the stun from close range.

    Bell, not so much. You don't sit there chaining abilities, and depending on the situation, there's good reason to stay in one stance after using that ability.

    Loki is the epitome of a Hydra's user, but since you like the Warriors, some of them that can get good benefit from Hydra's Lament, depending on how you build, might include Horus, Osiris, Erlang Shen, Sun Wukong, and Vamana. Note those are only because you can sort of quickly chain abilities together...it's not common on any of them.

  • Remember that Stone Cutting Sword requires basic hits to get the protection and protection reduction. In that respect, Void Shield is going to be incredibly more reliable than SCS, not just due to the higher protection, but you also get a bit of health. You CAN consider combining the two, of course.

  • Remember that Witchblade is situational. Since it doesn't have power, it's not as good as other choices if you're looking for higher DPS, unless you're specifically countering multiple basic attackers. I wouldn't consider it as part of a normal build.

  • Your build above of Warrior Tabi, Stone Cutting Sword, Gauntlet of Thebes, Hide of the Urchin, Jotunn's Wrath, and Hydra's Lament is IMO just not specialized enough. You have SCS in there so it looks like you're going for a more basic attack-oriented build...but then the rest of your build contains protections and ability items. This is one of those cases where the build just doesn't know what it's doing, or it can't really make up its mind.

    In an Arena setting, I do think a stronger focus on basic attacks is good. She has a lot of utility in those basics...block stacks, or some lifesteal, or AOE. I would build her bruiser, with some basic attack items and some protections. The CDR isn't really all that needed, or at least doesn't have to be a main build focus. If anything, I'd suggest toning down your original build. Keep the Hastened Katana cuz it's super fun. Get either of Thebes or Urchin (but not both). Get some secondary protection items like Void Shield, or Shogun's Kusari. Things like that.

    Ninja Tabi (or Warrior Tabi), Hide of the Urchin or Gauntlet of Thebes, Hastened Katana, Stone Cutting Sword, Void Shield, Shogun's Kusari. AS from Ninja/Katana/Kusari, some pen from SCS and Void, and tankiness from Gaunt or Urchin/Void/SCS/Kusari. That seems like it could be fun, while giving you enough protections to survive some damage. Save that ult in case you need to run XD.

    As another option...do that fun thing and skip Tabi. Go Hastened + SCS to start, bide your time, get some quick prots after that (e.g. Urchin), and then finish off with 3 other items. Very flexible build options that way, but starts off slow and a bit dangerous.

  • You asked about Relic Dagger and Toxic Blade. I wouldn't bother with either. She's not Ares or Odin, or Sylvanus or Geb, etc., looking to get as much out of a blink ult as others. Yes, other relics have some use too, but they're never going to be such a defining factor of gameplay that you dedicate Relic to it. Toxic Blade is just...meh. It's fine to counter healers, but I just don't think you're building enough into basics to make good use of it. I'd consider it in a Qin's build because that always wants more AS. But not in a hybrid build. You'd probably be better off going with Brawler's Beat Stick if you really needed the anti-heal.

  • Forcing health items isn't really preferred. If anything, you'll probably get more out of Oni Hunter's Garb for the mitigations. As discussed before, just don't think Mail of Renewal is that worth it, especially in an Arena mode with the nearby base. Gaia is also unneeded...the HP5 is better for long modes where you don't go back to base often. Shield of Regrowth, eh, not that great on Bellona IMO. If you want that speed...Hastened keeps you stuck to enemies.

    Talisman is maybe okay in Arena, but I also think the passive is sorta meh.
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Permalink | Quote | +Rep by silentshell » May 8, 2019 6:42am | Report
Branmuffin17 wrote:

Hey Silent,

So let's see. First, your most recent comment...I personally don't know if it's best that you use a smurf account for trying your experimental builds. Now that you're a lot more comfortable with Bellona and her kit, even if the build is bad, you might see some success and get what I'd probably call a false positive. I think it's best if you use it in your current games on your regular account, so you have a better idea if the build is going to be viable in matches at your normal level.

I do have an alt account. I am using it for 2 things. 1) helping newer players learn the game, where I'm likely to choose a tanky god (or a god that heals) and not go for noob kills...using the account allows them to play more at their level. 2) for my own Conquest matches, to get more comfortable with the process in roles I'm not comfortable with in general. I plan to do this for upcoming jungle matches with Awilix, as I really want to get more familiar with her and Jungling in general.

Anyway, on to build concepts and considering specific items in general.
  • Hydra's Lament: the reason both Kriega and I said it's probably not good for Bell is because the item really benefits in specific gods hands. Those are the ones that do a quick ability and then a follow-up basic, and then likely another ability, and a basic. This way you get more Hydra's passive procs. Kriega gave the example of Achilles. Why? His Combat Dodge (dash) allows him to get a basic after the dash...and THEN, as long as you hit the enemy with the first dash, you can do ANOTHER dash, and ANOTHER basic. 2 Hydra's procs off of one ability that chains on itself very well. THEN, you can also activate your his steroid, Radiant Glory, and get a basic, and you can get a basic in easily after Shield of Achilles, especially if you get the stun from close range.

    Bell, not so much. You don't sit there chaining abilities, and depending on the situation, there's good reason to stay in one stance after using that ability.

    Loki is the epitome of a Hydra's user, but since you like the Warriors, some of them that can get good benefit from Hydra's Lament, depending on how you build, might include Horus, Osiris, Erlang Shen, Sun Wukong, and Vamana. Note those are only because you can sort of quickly chain abilities together...it's not common on any of them.

  • Remember that Stone Cutting Sword requires basic hits to get the protection and protection reduction. In that respect, Void Shield is going to be incredibly more reliable than SCS, not just due to the higher protection, but you also get a bit of health. You CAN consider combining the two, of course.

  • Remember that Witchblade is situational. Since it doesn't have power, it's not as good as other choices if you're looking for higher DPS, unless you're specifically countering multiple basic attackers. I wouldn't consider it as part of a normal build.

  • Your build above of Warrior Tabi, Stone Cutting Sword, Gauntlet of Thebes, Hide of the Urchin, Jotunn's Wrath, and Hydra's Lament is IMO just not specialized enough. You have SCS in there so it looks like you're going for a more basic attack-oriented build...but then the rest of your build contains protections and ability items. This is one of those cases where the build just doesn't know what it's doing, or it can't really make up its mind.

    In an Arena setting, I do think a stronger focus on basic attacks is good. She has a lot of utility in those basics...block stacks, or some lifesteal, or AOE. I would build her bruiser, with some basic attack items and some protections. The CDR isn't really all that needed, or at least doesn't have to be a main build focus. If anything, I'd suggest toning down your original build. Keep the Hastened Katana cuz it's super fun. Get either of Thebes or Urchin (but not both). Get some secondary protection items like Void Shield, or Shogun's Kusari. Things like that.

    Ninja Tabi (or Warrior Tabi), Hide of the Urchin or Gauntlet of Thebes, Hastened Katana, Stone Cutting Sword, Void Shield, Shogun's Kusari. AS from Ninja/Katana/Kusari, some pen from SCS and Void, and tankiness from Gaunt or Urchin/Void/SCS/Kusari. That seems like it could be fun, while giving you enough protections to survive some damage. Save that ult in case you need to run XD.

    As another option...do that fun thing and skip Tabi. Go Hastened + SCS to start, bide your time, get some quick prots after that (e.g. Urchin), and then finish off with 3 other items. Very flexible build options that way, but starts off slow and a bit dangerous.

  • You asked about Relic Dagger and Toxic Blade. I wouldn't bother with either. She's not Ares or Odin, or Sylvanus or Geb, etc., looking to get as much out of a blink ult as others. Yes, other relics have some use too, but they're never going to be such a defining factor of gameplay that you dedicate Relic to it. Toxic Blade is just...meh. It's fine to counter healers, but I just don't think you're building enough into basics to make good use of it. I'd consider it in a Qin's build because that always wants more AS. But not in a hybrid build. You'd probably be better off going with Brawler's Beat Stick if you really needed the anti-heal.

  • Forcing health items isn't really preferred. If anything, you'll probably get more out of Oni Hunter's Garb for the mitigations. As discussed before, just don't think Mail of Renewal is that worth it, especially in an Arena mode with the nearby base. Gaia is also unneeded...the HP5 is better for long modes where you don't go back to base often. Shield of Regrowth, eh, not that great on Bellona IMO. If you want that speed...Hastened keeps you stuck to enemies.

    Talisman is maybe okay in Arena, but I also think the passive is sorta meh.


The purpose of the smurf account is not to experimental build. When I think experimental build i am thinking things like my AS Bellona build on this site, which I will not be doing on that account. It might come across as experimental builds, but it's really more working on building appropriate defenses against the teams I face, which knock on wood, 2 matches in went pretty well. lol. I know I can get better and it will be a process but I feel like that will help me on my regular account. I won't be doing 'experimental' builds like I have on my own account. I want to be able to get the experience counter building that I have not really done to this point so that I can be more of a consistent asset on those higher level teams.

I have a lot of fun on my account and I love the challenge and usually when I don't have a completely off the wall build I do decently or well but we don't necessarily win. I know arena can be a ****shoot, but if a player is good enough, sometimes they can negate the affect of a bad member or members of your team. I have seen it and I have done it when I have been on. Getting the whole build thing down will only help me hopefully be able to do that more often. I know it would have been easier if i'd gotten that process in the beginning but with work and kids and all sorts of other stuff I didn't have time to get the crazy stuff out of my system AND learn things the way I needed to from the very beginning.


Thanks for your feed back on all the other stuff. I have already phased out Hydra's Lament and appreciate your thoughts on the other health only items I mentioned. With the Witchblade, I just had it up there because it and Winged are in the same tree and since they are both items I am very familiar with it was just basically a quick coin flip in my head which one to put up. With limited spaces I was just trying to balance making the most of my space while putting as many items on the page to keep me from having to search during matches and also focusing on items I am not as familiar with rather than just clicking on another item and finding it there.

As examples where I could have just had one item because of the tree but I have them up to focus specifically on that item until I consistently fit it in a way that makes sense I have Bulwark of Hope and Pestilence on my page. Other examples like witch and winged blade is with The Executioner since I am very familiar with it and asi and qin's I would just click on it if I wanted to make the other two. Same thing with Masamune at the bottom, I already know that tree pretty well so I do use the shortcut on those items. Since I started out the game *** backwards, and again it may not make sense to anyone else lol, but I am making a very concerted effort to train myself to build the right way.

That isn't to say I won't still make my own flavor kind of builds but not until I get the information and experience building the way I need to, unless I just happen to have something I've already tried on a character and it works well within the context of the parameters I set for the build. Even then, there will be the conscious effort to switch the build to something more conventional if we are getting blown up and I am part of the reason or I need to make up for a deficiency on our team.


On that build I wasn't really tied to it, it just seemed to work ok for me so I was getting info. I was, as of yet, unsure if hyrda's or jotunn's were good options on her, they both had cooldown so that is why I tied them together. As I mentioned to Gulf, I really hate that BoV gives mana instead of health. I am sure it is balance, but I just don't normally like having a protection item early that does not give health. Normally on any build where I am building power or damage at the end it would look something similar to this probably Ninja Tabi Void Shield Runic Shield Hide of the Urchin(or if I built thebes it would probably go in second-after your input about not building both) Masamune(depending on how the match was going I could sell boots and either go Stone Cutting Sword or Hastened Katana final two items would be Qin's Sais and The Executioner. I figure if they don't have high defenses go the katana route and if they did go stone cutting sword.

I know beater's stick and titan's bane would be options too but then with this setup I think it would kind of leave it watered down like the other build I brought up. I know she is not typically AS but you have seen as well that it can work on her, and I figure that in Arena between three pure defense items and then one combo item like Masamune or SCS the qin's/executioner combo at the end still works well enough. I have had a good bit of success blending those in similar manner to what I was just talking about here without going full AS like in my build on this site. Falling back on what I was talking about earlier, depending on how the match is going I can change up what I had intended to do defensively and either finish out the build as intended or put other counters in if needed.

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