Let's Make Patch Notes - Guardians

Ninja'd.

Full cdr. 12 seconds. Then Searing Flesh. Really strong version of Sobek's Charge Prey. If you have ever played a good Sobek. He will throw you in his tower all day early game. I feel like this would just get ridiculous. Really fast, and it is super hard to counter that kind of cc every 12 seconds.

no, like, I saw your sub. I'm saying make his ulti different and just make it a part of shackles.

Actually, I would prefer him not to be a physical bruiser, since we already have roughly 5000 of them right now.

I dislike the 3 shackles = effect thing because this still doesn't solve his CC issues. He's not Anubis, he's a guardian.

Do you think simply doubling the entire damage against minions would be a good change?


So...this is a conical version of this old ult, only with a huge pull effect before the stun. I think this is kind of overpowered as the enemy is virtually rooted, except they are moved, kind of like an AoE Ragnarok, with less freedom of movement, and at the end, they are pulled in front of him. Since max beads lasts 2 seconds, there is literally no way to avoid either effect, which I think is a bad thing.

Not really. Most tanks don't get max CDR until late game where they can swap midas boots for Shoes of Focus, and with a Breastplate of Valor, the cooldown is a decent 15 seconds.

Keep in mind that this ult is fairly weak early on. 15 feet of pulling is tiny, and you have to hit with a Shackles first. Early game, it'll be a fairly weak stun; late game, it will be an engaging ability, but limited to three people. (35 feet is less than the length of a ranged basic.)

You compared the move to Charge Prey, and it is an accurate comparison, as they share similar weaknesses. If Sobek misses it, he is in an uncomfortable and vulnerable position. If Ares misses his Shackles, he cannot use his one AND his four, with his only offensive ability being Searing Flesh.

Hrm. It's tough to do that to Shackles; how on earth would such a mechanic work? "Press 1 to pull target" would simply make Shackles a single-target ability, and pulling at 3 shackles runs into the same problem.

Do you have any suggestions about his ultimate, then?

it would be either 'basic attack to pull' or 'look away from enemies and pres 1 to pull'

New ulti: The Chains of War: Ares swings a massive chain made out of many of his shackles in an AoE around him (Slightly smaller than his current one,) dealing damage and putting anything hit directly behind him.
A basic idea for a powerful peel and a way to both initiate and end a fight. May be a horrible Idea, I have way too many things running through my head right now.

I see what I, and many others, have wanted for a long time now is being brought up; instead of Ares's chains simply disappearing when the constrained god passes its maximum length, it would be awesome if they locked the target at maximum range. But obviously there would need to be significant changes to him first. So, here are my ideas:





Blessed Presence: Ares gains 2% movement speed for each allied god affected by Bolster Defenses. This includes Ares.

Reasons: his old passive didn't fit the guardian role. The movement speed should become apparent after reading the rest of his skills (especially Shackles).




Shackles: The application would be similar to how it is currently, but only two chains can be casted at a time, and each successful latching reduces the overall (not remaining) cooldown by one-fourth. That is, if the cooldown is, say, ten seconds, then each hit will reduce the remaining cooldown by two-and-a-half seconds. A chain would last three seconds, and hitting the same target a second time would refresh the duration to three seconds, not simply add three on top. The current slowing mechanic would also remain in order to provide some form of CC when not at maximum range, and he has three seconds after landing the first chain to cast his second.

Reasons: Having legitimate crowd control on a non-ultimate spell is necessary for a god to actually be considered a guardian, and being able to pull the target to you when the enemy gods are at the chains' maximum lengths is unique and useful. Now, being able to pull a single god for six full seconds may seem, at a glance, overpowered. But keep in mind that Ares won't be able to begin pulling him/her until the chain is fully tensed. This means that, unless he lands it at its maximum range, he will only have a short period where he controls his bound enemy's movement. In order to have effective control over someone from a closer range, he will have to use both chains on a single god (and not apply them immediately after one another). I believe this will reward skilled Ares players while also making it possible for the average Ares player to initiate or peel.

Also, I have reduced the amount of chains to prevent him from dealing too much damage to a single target, and three chains with a form of hard CC would be too much.




Bolster Defenses: No changes.

Reasons: I like where this skill is at. It provides protections and CC reduction, which is ideal for the guardian role.




Searing Flesh: This spell no longer applies % damage, but will now apply a 1.5s fear to any targets chained by Ares, forcing them in the opposite direction. The effect will apply a 3s fear to a target affected by two chains.

Reasons: I don't think Ares needs to have everything, so I'm not giving him good waveclear. I also really just want to remove his independent damage potential - most of it came from his chains, but I, personally, think he only needs the ticking damage to apply on-hit effects.

As for the fear, this will give his chains a bit more use than a minor slow when not at maximum range, but he'll have to have flanked the enemy in order to push them towards his team. It will also increase his peeling potential. I don't think it's overpowered, because the CC from his chains will be on cooldown in order to apply a fear, but it at least gives him options in closer distances.




No Escape: a different type of chain is automatically latched on to any enemies within the radius (same size as current ult). The chains do not apply a slow, but, similar his first spell, prevent a target from escaping. However, if enough enemy gods are chained, they will be able to move him (explained in reasons).

Reasons: Now that there's no delayed effect, it won't be so unreliable against competent enemies (beads, aegis, GGlol). And while it will be great for initiation or, well, preventing escape (no escape), it won't completely incapacitate the enemy team. In addition, if at least two are chained, they can actually pull Ares where they want to. The more chained, the faster they will be able to pull Ares. If HiRez implements proper physics into it, all five of them could pull him at normal movement speed. If only a few are latched, however, they won't be able to pull him at normal movement speed unless they all pull in the same direction. And if they do that, they're prime targets for AoE death. Instead, they will likely spread out slightly and pull him at a slower pace.







So, what do you guys think? Overpowered? Bad design?

TT, I think the biggest problem with your design is that the three second fear is incredibly overpowered. Regardless of how difficult it is to hit with two shackles, a 3 second fear is literally the strongest CC in the game outside of a Chang'e ultimate with three people in it. As a normal ability.

Also, the wording on it is odd. Are all chained targets, regardless of range, feared, or do they have to be hit by the flames? Seeing how Searing Flesh lasts four seconds, it can potentially be a 7 second fear - which is definitely the most broken thing in the game.

I think you also misunderstand hard CC - pulling is not hard CC. Hell, even the repositioning on Ragnarok is not hard CC*. Being pulled is only good for engaging, due to pulled enemies still being able to hit with any damaging abilities and basic attacks they might have. Being pulled won't save your hunter from a Brutalize**, it won't same him from Apollo's basic attacks or Sobek's Sickening Strike.

That applies to his new Shackles, which would be roughly as effective for peeling as they are now, and to the ultimate, which is also less than useful, thanks to, well, it not disabling any of them. It doesn't stop them from beating on your team or do anything other than a movement restriction and a mild slow, not even damage. It's like how Sobek's usually don't use Lurking In The Waters to engage - it is too easy to escape from, and puts him in a bad spot where he can't peel for his team.

In lane, the new Shackles will be good for poking-pulling the enemy, but not for actually moving them off your carry, which requires you to be standing opposite to your carry, enemies in between. And the fear, as I mentioned, is completely overpowered.

So I don't know what to think of your design other than being incredibly unbalanced in all senses of the word.

*The disabling, however, is, which is why its a bit buggy right now. I've bitten targets who use beads BEFORE I bite, but not AFTER. Odd.

**I'm not certain if its a bug, but if Fen brutalizes Thanatos as the latter is going through the air, as soon as Thanatos comes down, he will instantly take all the damage he would have taken, even if his flight interrupted Brutalize. NOTHING STOPS BRUTALIZE!!!***

***Even if you Shackles him when he's brutalizing, it doesn't end. Fenrir is the embodiment of anti-counterplay.

Oh my, repositioning an entire team behind him. Kind of like a faster version of No Escape...not sure how I feel about that. I think with some adjustment, it could be an awesome idea. But it won't be a good disengager for the same reason No Escape isn't a good disengager: suicidal and potentially beneficial to the enemy, not to mention to use it as a disengage, you will have to be in the middle of the enemy team, a bit too far from your own team to help them.

I like the idea of basics triggering the pull though. (But please, no Attack Speed Ares. I had enough nightmares about Attack Speed Thresh.) The other solution doesn't work well, since players won't be able to easily tell when they are 'safe' to pull, and it is quite unreliable, and I would prefer not having an ability that required you to blind yourself.