Let's Make Patch Notes - Guardians

Eh, "somewhat-flaccid-but-still-strong-CC," then. Having your movement influenced is pretty incapacitating, in my opinion. But you're right, it's not really hard CC.

As for Searing Flesh, the wording is indeed poor, so let me rephrase myself: upon its activation, a 1.5/2 second fear is applied to any targets that are both within the cone of Searing Flesh and bound by Shackles. It will not be a constantly reapplied fear, but perhaps a small, reapplying slow to anyone in its range would be good for soft CC on non-shackled targets. As for the three second fear, I guess we can just make it unstackable, keeping it at one or two seconds. But keep in mind it was only three seconds with both chains on a single enemy, pretty much consuming the entire use of his chains specifically to cast a fear.

I don't think any ultimates in the game should be ridiculous, so I have it toned down but more reliable. The problem with comparing this one to Sobek's is that Sobek can't prevent them from moving. Unless Ares chains the entire team, they will have to coordinate well or they will be disabled, even if they won't necessarily be incapacitated. Perhaps a tweak to the physics, making it harder for the enemy to pull him is necessary, but I don't think it's in any way useless.

Edit2: Perhaps he could slowly reel the chains in to half-length over the course of its, say, three or four second duration, though. That'd be neat.



With toning down the fear, it won't be overpowered. And you wouldn't need to stand opposite of your carry to defend your carry. If you did that, you'd only be pushing them towards your carry, lol...

Edit: misread. Yes, you would need to be opposite for chains to peel, but that exactly why I suggested the Searing Flesh fear. Chain them and cast Searing Flesh in order to peel. The chains are more for initiation and preventing escape, unless you happen to be roaming to save a teammate.


I'll just toss the three footnotes regarding bugs with Fenrir aside, too, lol.

Wait...I thought the Shackles were like dog leashes. They can't move outside the radius. Unless you are saying they're like those leashes that are 90% solid inflexible iron in a long metal stick, and they can only move in a cirle around Ares?

You said they have to be at maximum range to pull, so I assumed that to pull, you have to be pulling in a direction opposite of where your target is going.

Argh, just tell me if the below is correct.


A <B - C>


C is Ares, A is carry, B is enemy. C pulls B until it looks like this.


A B> - C>


Is that right? If so, then yes, Ares has to be on the opposite side of the enemy to peel. But then you said that being on the opposite side would pull them TOWARD you carry...


A <B - C>

A <B- - -C>

So I'd assume that walking TOWARD your carry would bring them AWAY from the enemy, as walking AWAY from the enemy pushes them TOWARD your Carry

A <C-<B

A <C- - -B>


??? I am confuse help help help

Am I missing something here?

I'm sorry, but those visuals are not doing it for me lol. Perhaps you didn't realize the rule function is applied by four successive dash marks xD.

Go back and read my edit, and maybe it'll clear it up. Sorry, I had misread your post thinking you meant searing flesh and not chains.

But basically, they're free to move to any area within a circle around Ares, they just can't move past its maximum length, and he can pull them when the chain is fully tensed (max length).


Edit: now that I can actually see, I can tell you have it right. But this misunderstanding only came about because I misread the quote. Basically, Searing Flesh would be his peeling mechanic if he's near his ally, and chains would peel if he's far. Chains are more for initiation and preventing escape, while Searing Flesh is more for peeling. However, both would have the opposite effects depending on where Ares is located.



Also note that by pull I mean drag, not an instant teleportation yank that his current ultimate does.

Ah, then I suppose your ideas are good. I do have one more small problem though:

His "dead" skills.

Basically, the skills which gain almost nothing from being leveled. His ultimate no longer deals damage, so you gain no benefit. His Searing Flesh now no longer deals any damage worth noting, even at max rank, so it's similarly useless. All of his CC with max potency is gained at level 1, which is a pretty bad design choice.

Maybe his ultimate increases the "shackle" time? 4/4.25/2.5/4.75/5 seconds?

As for Searing Flesh, I think a scaling fear is a good idea. 1.1/1.2/1.3/1.4/1.5 seconds, increasing by a flat 0.5 seconds if there are two on one god. In fact, this way, there could be three shackles for another 0.5 seconds increase. (A straight doubling is difficult to balance for a support, trading between uselessness (0.7 seconds x 2) or overpowered (1.5 seconds x 2).)

Shackles is already a pure damage skill.

I think that solves the problem.

You're right, I definitely overlooked the fact that spells have ranks.

1: Scaling slow and minor damage increase, or, as you said, just scaling damage.

2: As is now, but 10x2 protections for chains rather than 7x3.

3: I agree, a scaling fear would be perfect. I don't think he should have a third shackle, though, because of how strong it could be on one god; that's up to nine seconds of control.

4: I agree with a scaling duration on his ultimate, and maybe he reels them in over time (in case you missed it). If it scaled, may reeling one-fourth at rank one, scaling up to one-half at rank five.



Edit: if you and I agree on that, I guess it's time to move onward to Hades considering he's been voted higher. :P but if anyone has opinions, please let me know. Otherwise, I will post a revision to my Ares suggestions soon based solely on Sub's feedback.

Alright, I think we're good, judging by how no one has commented in the past 12 hours. (One small bit of clarification : if the fear doesn't reapply, how can it be 9 seconds of control if the amount increases by a flat 0.5 seconds per shackle?)

Hades. Oh boy, Hades.

This guy has a LOT of problems, like being played as a mage despite being labed as Guardian, having an ultimate that can teeter between being overpowered or underpowered, an unreliable passive and an underwhelming kit that does not fit well with the Guardian theme.

1. His Passive, Blight.

This is an example of atrocious design, having a basic attack passive on an ability-based god. This one deserves a rework, no question.

Why am I discussing his passive before his abilities? Because depending on whether or not you choose to preserve the debuff effect, his abilities would either be over or underpowered.

If you guys' ideas keep the debuff effect, then ignore the above paragraph and submit your ideas, please.

I aim to make Hades more of a guardian.

My version of Blight: Hades' basic attacks deal additional damage equal to 3 x his level + 6% of his maximum health and apply a healing reduction debuff for 5 seconds. This debuff spreads to enemies within 15 feet, like Bees!, but only from the original source. Heal reduction: 50%.

Welp, now he can make use of his ranged basic attacks, which will never deal as much damage as a hunter's or bruiser's, but they won't be completely insignificant. I also removed the additional Blight effect to make his abilities easier to balance.

I agree with the new passive sub. Though the healing reduction... I don't know.. 5 seconds for 50% might be too long. But then again, Chang'e has a 4 seconds 50% debuff on her Moonflower Dance dance and it isn't a skill shot basic attack but an area ability. I like this new idea. Fits his 'lore'. And the damage on the basic attacks might seem overpowered, but if he has 3000 health at level 20 he deals 200 damage on basic attacks. That doesn't seem too bad. That could actually make Gauntlet of Thebes a valuable choice (not).

By nine seconds of control, I mean theoretically being able to apply shackles to a single god for nine seconds, not the fear. I reduced his shackles to two to reduce his single-target damage and control, but it does arguably render him mostly incapable of defending against three or more opponents when his ultimate is down, and even then they can conceivably work together to punish him. But I don't think guardians should be able to simply disrupt five enemies with the push of a button, anyways, and giving his ultimate a cooldown of sixty seconds might make his teamfighting presence a force to be reckoned with. He'll essentially have strong control over one or two enemies while still having potential to affect the entire enemy team and also providing a strong buff to his teammates.


I don't really have anything to discuss about Hades, but you know my stance on that passive. :P

Mind reiterating it?