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Balancing Discussion: The Real Deal

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Forum » General Discussion » Balancing Discussion: The Real Deal 384 posts - page 37 of 39
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Firraria » September 12, 2014 1:14pm | Report
green I disagree stop oppressing me green

Firraria
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Raventhor » September 12, 2014 1:58pm | Report
I think nemesis is fine. If you have a problem with her deleting some gods with no escape (Namely Kukulkan, Artemis, etc), then people really need to understand counterpicks more in smite. I think there's too much of a stigma that all gods should be able to survive against all gods. Sometimes, counterplay exists in god select. There SHOULD be some gods that will absolutely DUMPSTER your god if you pick the wrong one. That should also mean, should the counterpick exist, you need to play safer and play around that fact.

Yes, Nemesis can delete immobile gods. Many other gods can too. But that's her thing. She cannot kill many other people with escapes. She'll eventually catch up, but it takes *way* too much time and effort to do, usually leading to her death, or your escape to a tower.

I'm using a specific example, but my goal is a general point: Counters *should exist* in smite. Everything is a skillshot so people think every god should always be able to win...but sometimes you simply should lose to a specific god. That's why pick and bans exist.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by dacoqrs » September 12, 2014 2:44pm | Report
Subzero008 wrote:



A summary of Nemesis has not been posted yet, AND Nem isn't finished. From these two points, I assumed you were talking about Guan Yu. Genius.



If you think that there is nothing wrong with Nemesis, you need an adult. Even Penta agrees that she has problems.


Aaand this is why "Balancing Discussions" are just bad ideas.

It's not even entirely Sub's fault for once. I used his post as an example of what usually happens.

I mean, basically Balancing Dicussions ALWAYS lead to gigantic flame wars because two people disagree whether it's me and Sub or anyone else.

These discussions just end up being pointless in the long term, and are really just toxic. Maybe you guys really really value them, but I just always see them steer the wrong way.

HolyPudding wrote:


I think this thread is running out of steam *snip*



Subzero008 wrote:


Are you nuts? Everyone agreed Guan Yu was underpowered.



Sub, hold up.

By holding these huge balancing discussions, they're just that: DISCUSSING.

You're only making PROPOSED changes.

So it's not like you discussing Guan Yu suddenly makes him NOT overpowered.

You can come up with a great rework for any god that needs help and it doesn't matter because it's just discussing.

I think Pudding is simply suggesting that this whole thing has lost interest, nobody's really INTO it anymore.

However, I also think Pudding misinterpreted your Nemesis ideas (with all the spoilers) as a summary, not as... well, your ideas.

So really this thread is just off the railz.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Subzero008 » September 14, 2014 8:29am | Report
Pentargonite wrote:


I didn't really until I saw her passive was rather weak....

Also, what does thinking nothing is wrong with Nemesis have to do with being an adult?

Adult thing was a reference to a common saying of Squiidish.

A lot of things look alright until you get a good look at the numbers.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Subzero008 » September 14, 2014 8:30am | Report
Greenevers wrote:

I am not a huge contributor to this thread but personally, I feel Nemesis is perfectly fine balance wise in SMITE right now. I don't think she really needs a change, even to her passive which isn't always that important. Some gods don't have that effective passives but still are considered balanced and people think they don't require any change.

Before you guys get to Guan Yu, I think it's best if we just went through the recent buffs and play with him a bit more, if you haven't already. I haven't yet but I have heard that he still isn't buffed quite enough.


Errybody is entitled to their own opinion #stopthebashing @erryone

Okay.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Subzero008 » September 14, 2014 8:41am | Report
Raventhor wrote:

I think nemesis is fine. If you have a problem with her deleting some gods with no escape (Namely Kukulkan, Artemis, etc), then people really need to understand counterpicks more in smite. I think there's too much of a stigma that all gods should be able to survive against all gods. Sometimes, counterplay exists in god select. There SHOULD be some gods that will absolutely DUMPSTER your god if you pick the wrong one. That should also mean, should the counterpick exist, you need to play safer and play around that fact.

Yes, Nemesis can delete immobile gods. Many other gods can too. But that's her thing. She cannot kill many other people with escapes. She'll eventually catch up, but it takes *way* too much time and effort to do, usually leading to her death, or your escape to a tower.

I'm using a specific example, but my goal is a general point: Counters *should exist* in smite. Everything is a skillshot so people think every god should always be able to win...but sometimes you simply should lose to a specific god. That's why pick and bans exist.

Er, I hope you realize that no one is saying she's overpowered. Some are saying she's fine, some say she's weak, but no one says OP.

Counters are a sign of a healthy metagame, yes. But counters shouldn't be so overspecialized in one ares that they completely fail in their role as anything else. For example, Ares is a counterpick to Fenrir jungle. Too bad he completely fails at supporting in so many ways that even as a counter to Fen, he's a bad pick.

Like, if a counterpick can't even be someone's first pick in a situation where they can counter things, what good are they?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Subzero008 » September 14, 2014 8:46am | Report
dacoqrs wrote:

I mean, basically Balancing Dicussions ALWAYS lead to gigantic flame wars because two people disagree whether it's me and Sub or anyone else.

These discussions just end up being pointless in the long term, and are really just toxic. Maybe you guys really really value them, but I just always see them steer the wrong way.
What I don't get, and why I disgagree with this statement, is that we went all the way to Guan Yu (going over twenty-ish gods, I think?) with everything being smooth sailing, and then, on Nemesis, things explode.

dacoqrs wrote:
b, hold up.

By holding these huge balancing discussions, they're just that: DISCUSSING.

You're only making PROPOSED changes.

So it's not like you discussing Guan Yu suddenly makes him NOT overpowered.

You can come up with a great rework for any god that needs help and it doesn't matter because it's just discussing.
Er, actually, the entire point of this discussion according to the OP on this thread and the prequel is that he's eventually going to make a list of the suggestions and ideas gained from this discussion and send it to HiRez.

So yes, these are all PROPOSED changes, because, well, they are proposed changes. We can't just discuss what's wrong with a god forever, because A that was in the preliminary thread and B some problems are blatantly obvious, like Ares' entire everything.

dacoqrs wrote:
I think Pudding is simply suggesting that this whole thing has lost interest, nobody's really INTO it anymore.

However, I also think Pudding misinterpreted your Nemesis ideas (with all the spoilers) as a summary, not as... well, your ideas.

So really this thread is just off the railz.
Yup. Just like an angry PC and his railroading GM.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Subzero008 » September 14, 2014 8:47am | Report
Firraria wrote:

green I disagree stop oppressing me green

Everyone is oppressing everyone.

Solution: Kill everyone.

All problems can be solved with murder.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Jordenito » September 14, 2014 10:32am | Report
Subzero008 wrote:


Everyone is oppressing everyone.

Solution: Kill everyone.

All problems can be solved with murder.

TROLOLOL!

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sasquatch180 » September 14, 2014 7:50pm | Report
But what if the problem is trying to prevent murder?

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