Balancing Discussion: The Real Deal

My concerns with arachne:

1) Her passive sounds more like bastet's bleed and now we have the venom lady too. In case, she deserves a rework, change the passive slightly, it's a good enough passive though.

2) Her tangled web is a waste IMO. Perhaps , the weakest of all abilities in the game. It has terrible casting , may be an improvement shall be fine. Give bonus damage or increased defenses to spiders in the web.

3) Her eggs must scale better to make her late game better.

1) Wait, so just because Poison Claws are a dot, much like Razor Whip, all of a sudden these skills are too much alike? That's like saying Grasping Hands and Whirlpool are the same skill, because they are both high damage aoe abilities with a radius of 15. Serqet's venom is tied to her ultimate and deals true damage. Bastet's bleed is a cone ability. Arachne's posion is tied to her basic attacks. Poison Claws doesn't need much of a rework.

2) Sub has already said something about Tangled Web - giving Arachne and her spiders increased movement speed while in it.

3) Her eggs do enough damage and provide with good slow and body block. The problem is their survivability. Remember, she is an early game Assassin, and we want her to stay that way.



P.S - If no more people are going to comment on Arachne, I will close her discussion tomorrow (26th of July).

http://www.reddit.com/r/Smite/comments/2748nw/the_best_arachnie_rework_idea_ever_forever_5eva/

^This.

Jokes aside, I like a lot of Sub's ideas, like she should get increased movement speed on her own webs. As the skill is right now, it has its uses, but it definitely should do more than just slow the enemy.

I also agree that her spiders do have decent damage already, but that they are way too easy to kill late game. Half the time, I don't even bother laying them down late game because I just see it as a waste if they're just going to be killed so easily.

Her passive isn't too bad. I like the idea of it, and honestly, it's not in that bad of a spot right now either. It does damage, though not a whole lot in higher levels. It could be made to scale a bit more, but not too much more, I don't think.

As for her ult and her Drain Life, it's definitely an interesting proposal to swap spots. While her ultimate is definitely a scary one in fights, I can possibly see it being worked as a regular skill if they changed things up a bit, such as, like already said, reducing the speed in which it's casted and reduce the speed in which she pulls them in, that way someone could actually bead out of it, but teammates in the area could also throw a few shots at the enemy as they're being pulled in. Hell, I'd even be up for her to keep this as her ultimate, keep the casting speed the same, but slowing down the time it takes for her to pull the opponent back toward her.

Drain Life is a little iffy. It really doesn't do much damage, but it heals her alright. But she's left in such a vulnerable state while using this skill. Whether made into an ult or not, she should have at least some control while this skill is active. If made into her ult, I think Sub's idea should work well. If not, I think at the very least she should be able to stun the person she's on top of for at least some of the time she's on them. Call it a paralysis of some sort because of her venom.

arachne summary Problems Her passive, poison claws, are only useful in the early game, mainly through levels 1-5, and then drops down drastically, because of its poor scaling and the increase in auto attack damage through many items, mainly critical strike chance items. Broodlings are too squishy late game - they could be taken out by two auto attacks or a single ability. Drain Life is an old skill that is very awkward and weird to use. Its damage is underwhelming and late game you will just get bursted down immediately if you jump on people. tangled web could use a slight buff. She is too much reliant on her Cocoon. This ability has almost zero counterplay, but without it, Arachne has no initiation and looses everything she has. Suggestions poison claws Replace the current base damage with one that scales according to her level. She starts with 5 base damage and gets an additional 1 base damage for every level, so at level 20, she has 25 base damage. Grant the spiders 50% damage reduction to all AoE damage sources and have their health scale: 75/150/225/300/375. Transfer Cocoon to be her 2nd ability instead of her ultimate. It should now have a 20/19/18/17/16s cooldown. Reduce the stun duration from 1.5s to 1, and it cannot be fired through walls anymore. Slightly reduce the width of the projectile and the projectile speed as well, to the speed of Ullr's Thrown Axe. This means that now players could use Purification Beads while being pulled to interrupt it. tangled web Reduce the slow to 25/30/35/40/45% and grant Arachne and her spiderlings about 20% increased movement speed while in it. New Ultimate: Paralysis: Arachne pounces on her melee target, dealing damage every 0.5s for 1.5s and healing for 100% the damage dealt while silencing the enemy and controlling their movement. If the target is affected by poison claws, Arachne refreshes its duration on the target. Arachne is immune to Crowd Control effects for the duration. Damage: 70/100/130/160/190 damage (+40% of your physical power) Damage (total): 210/300/390/480/570 (+120% of your physical power) Cooldown: 90s

Problems

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Ares has terrible peel and a ridiculous damage output for someone who is supposed to be a Guardian. His ultimate, while iconic, is easily countered, and generally speaking, having "beads or die!" ultimates in the game is somewhat stale. His passive doesn't fit the idea of a Guardian, nor does his Searing Flesh - both are pure damage elements, and pure damage doesn't belong in the kit of a guardian.



I suggest a full rework. He needs to be refreshed. His kit just doesn't make sense.

Think blood-lust, torture, affliction, torment, war, gore etc.

Since Ares is the God of War, and in war, you are either on the offense or the defense, I thought of giving him a stance kit. Plus, we don't have a guardian with a stance kit, and all stance gods are Norse ones....



I have only managed to think of his passive, stance and another ability. I still haven't thought of his core abilities - his peel and CC. This idea is incomplete, so feel free to suggest anything you want to.

Passive: Warlord

For every allied god within 35 ft of Ares while in Defense Formation, or for every enemy god with 35 ft of Ares while in Offense Formation, the effectiveness of Ares' abilities are enhanced. (Ares also counts)

1: Bolster Defenses / Battle Cry

Bolster Defenses: Ares slams his sword upon his shield, creating a 35 ft aura that grants 20/25/30/35/40 protections to him and all nearby allies. Warlord Bonus: +3 protections per allied god Battle Cry: Ares lifts his sword in the air, yelling a loud battle cry, creating a 35 ft aura that grants 2/4/6/8/10% additional magical power and 4/8/12/16/20% additional physical power to him and all nearby allies. Warlord Bonus: 1% additional magical power / 2% additional physical power per enemy god. If Ares switches formation, the aura is cancelled. Duration: 6s Cooldown: 13s

Ultimate: Change Formation

Ares changes formation. Defense Formation: 2/4/6/8/10% of all damage allied god within 35 ft of Ares take from enemy gods (pre-mitigated) is transferred to Ares and then mitigated. If Ares drops below 15% health, the effect is paused. Warlord Bonus: 1% per allied god. Offense Formation: Ares reduces the protection of all enemy gods within 35 ft of him by 4/8/12/16/20. Warlord Bonus: 3 per enemy god.

Oh Ares...

Back when I was young and new to this game, I feared Ares more than any other god. That changed quick when I discovered Purification Beads and the fact that many, many gods/goddesses have CC imune skills/ults that completely screw it. His ult, while great against people without any of these, is a hit or miss. Either it does great for him, or it's completely useless, and sadly, against anyone competent, most of the time, it's completely useless. And it's just one of those ults that you really can't do much with. Either it's going to be very easy to counter, like it is now, or somehow make it harder to counter and make it way too over powered.

Everything you stated is what's wrong with him. He doesn't know what he's supposed to be. He's classified as a Guardian, but has really no peel. His passive is nice, but it really doesn't fit him, nor can I really think of it fitting anything in this game. I mean, I love the idea for it, but it really doesn't fit much in the current state of this game. His Searing Flesh is a decent skill for damage, which isn't horrible for guardians to have.

When it comes down to it, his kit is incredibly outdated for the current state of this game. Some people swear by him, at least in casual, but I really think he's a hit or miss kind of god. Great if you're going up against a clueless team, but if you're going up against a team that has some know-how, Ares probably isn't going to have a good time.

I agree with Jordenito in that he should probably get a full rework.

Can Ares have an ability where he just yells and kicks some down to the ground? that's all. thanks.

Cuase Ares is MAN. Man.. is ARES!


Totally not a "This is Sparta" reference.... Ok so it is.

Why I think Ares needs a complete rework.

Ares is just stupidly busted. People often call him useless, but that's only half the truth. His kit makes him both OP and UP AKA broken.

Blessed Presence:
This passive is good in theory, but has two big problems. First of it tricks people in to "I should only buy aura items on Ares because of his passive" which is a bad idea. Secondly even though it was a good idea to give him a passive that encourages aura items AKA items that can help a Guardian help his team and cripple the enemy team, the fact that the reward is magical power doesn't fit with in the Guardian role at all.


Shackles:
LOOK AT THE DAMAGE! 1260 damage and 180% scaling at level 5! OPOPOPOPOPOP and on a guardian? WHY?!?
Sure he has to land 3 skill shots for max damage, but the slow and the fact that he is a guardian that can afford to get right up in your face means that getting the full damage is a cake walk.


Bolster Defenses:
Halleluiah! A skill that fits perfectly in to the Guardian archetype! Good job Hi-r...
Wait, its is worst skill! Its not that the stats are god awful, its just that if you compare it to things like Stone Shield, Odin's Shout or even Fog skills that can turn the tide of a battle when used at the right time. Bolster Defenses is very, very err forgetful.

Searing Flesh
This is his only skill that can do full damage to minions, dose it do a good job at it. NOPE!
This skill sound like it would be devastating, do a lot of damage on even the tankiest of tanks, but it really doesn't (at lest when compared to ridicules damage on Shackles). Not to mention that its a pure damage ability on a Guardian. -_-
I mean at least Shackles has a slow, at least Shield Wall can be used to control an enemies position, what is used for Searing Flesh? Noting but damage.


No Escape
*Face plants* Why Hi-rez? Why?
There are so many things wrong with this ability.
A: Its unavoidable damage unless you have Aegis, If he is standing next to you and says "I have you now!" you will take at least 200 damage and there is noting you can do about it!
B: A lot of people say "Beads or die", I prefer "CC immunity or death". If you don't have any form of CC immunity, you are literarily screwed GAME OVER MAN! Also just because you bought beads doesn't mean that you will never get pulled. What if you used Beads for something else? What if he maxed cooldown reduction (which every Ares that knows what he is doing will do)?


So to conclude:
His kit is everything but balanced.
His kit doesn't fit in the Guardian role, since he as very little CC and a lot of his kit is noteing but damage.
His ultimate is not fun to play against.
His kit doesn't make any sense!
Why did they give him a swing combo?!?
His appearance is pretty cool though.
He really REALLY needs to be reworked.

I don't care if he is reworked in to a Tank or Warrior or Mage or whatever, just rework him. I am sick of being forced to by beads just because this ****er is on the enemy team.

If he gets a rework I want him to keep Shackles.