I believe that early survivability in lane is huge. A large part of that is knowing the limits of both yourself and your ADC. That being said lets have a look at some potential starting items.
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enchanted kusari |
breastplate
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Enchanted Kusari or
Breastplate? The ultimate goal is being able to survive in lane long enough to be able to afford you first full item and chalice of the oracle before being forced back to base here. The reason I like to go with Enchanted Kusari over Breastplate to start the game is that it give a slight boost in mp5 for 50 gold. You could choose to spend that 50 gold on an extra mana potion if you opt to buy Breatplate instead, but I have found that the mp5 holds up better the longer you are in lane.I also find myself being bullied by the enemy support more than the enemy ADC in the first few minutes of the game which means the magical protections offered by Enchanted Kusari. Remember, both are viable options, I just prefer to go with Enchanted Kusari over Breastplate
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shogun's kusari |
sovereignty |
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Simply put, these are the items I find myself building almost every game. There are some exceptions like when they have a bakasura, I usually dont get to Mantle of Discord as I'm too busy counterbuilding him as best I can, but for the most part I always buy these three items.
Shogun's Kusari is a fantastic item for the early game all the way through the late game. With it the enemy guardian will do minimal damage to you and you will have plenty of mana to stay in lane with its 60 magical protections and 20 MP5. It also has the added benefit of 20% CCR, but the real good part of it is its aura. The aura of 20% attack speed really helps get your ADC online just that little bit faster. This early in the game its likely that they won't have any extra attack speed (though I have seen a few charged bow starts, which yields 20%). Even if your ADC does this start, you are still doubling their attack speed boost from 20%-40% which can certainly be the difference in winning a fight.
Sovereignty helps out early more than it does late, so I like to build it second item. The reason for this is despite the 60 physical protections and 250 health being very helpful all game, the aura of 15 physical protections and 25 HP5 begins to become less effective as the game goes on. Despite this, it is a good item to have, though when the game goes long enough for me to get the money, I do find myself selling it for other items, though that is rare.
Mantle of Discord is a great defensive item all around. 60 of each protection is major on its own, but then it gives 10% CDR and a passive that nearly gives you a second ultimate. Upon reaching 30% health, it sends out a shockwave stunning all nearby enemies and granting you CC immunity. Its a great item for those times when you just need to live and get out.
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pestilence |
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These are generally my go to items when looking for some extra magical defense given that they come equipped with a good amount of magical protections and a slew of other helpful perks
Oni Hunter's Garb yields 60 magical protections as well as a bit of health and some extra MP5(You might overcap on MP5, but that's no big deal), but the impressive part of this item is in its passive. In any late game teamfight, having Oni Hunter's Garb in your build will help you take just about 10% less damage from all incoming sources, which is a pretty good way to absorb some extra damage. Even early in lane, there will almost always be two gods around so you will get most of the passive's bonus all game long.
Pestilence can easily be overlooked as an anti-heal item, and the serious magical protections it offers can be lost. I believe out of all the items you can grab, Pestilence has the single highest gain in magical protections at a whopping 80 from one item, on top of the addition of 200 health, and a 25% anti-heal aura around you. This is a potentially very potent item
Genji's Guard makes for a great magical defense item due to its 70 protections, 150 health, and a lot of CDR with its passive. At face value the item only gives 10%, the same as most items, but it is possible for it to reduce each cooldown you currently have running by 3 seconds, which can really be huge when you are waiting to place a stone shield on an ally.
Often times physical damage comes in the form of basic attacks, so the best ways to counter it are items that counter basic attacks as well as providing physical protections to reduce the damage done.
Hide of the Nemean Lion is my go to item for when I am being shredded by hunters in a fight, late game they can certainly cause you a lot of problems. While hide of the Nemean Lion gives a hefty 70 physical protections, its real potential comes through its passive. The ability to return 25% of damage back to the attacker is something that can be very dangerous for the enemy. Its also important to note that the damage returned is 25% of damage before mitigation. From what I understand in from testing is it means the reflected damage is before mitigations as theoretically with 300 protections the hunter would take equal amounts of damage as me. This did not happen, but they still recieved about 50% damage, which is a lot, and with the application of Stone Shield, he actually killed himself with reflect damage before I died. This was all done with a build on Ah Muzen Cab that I find to be rather effective. Outside of that, it also gives you a pretty good boost of 200 mana and 20 MP5.
Midgardian Mail isn't quite as good in the physical protections department as Hide of the Nemean Lion, having 30 less, but it makes up for that loss in its addition of 300 health, and a passive that slows both movement speed and attack speed of the enemy by up to 24% at 3 stacks of 8. The idea here is that you have more health to tank hits, and they cannot hit you as fast, thus making you live longer in a firefight.
Spectral Armor provides 60 physical protections, 300 mana, and 10 MP5, pretty standard stuff so far, but the real interest of this item comes in its passive. From what testing I've done (Namely a custom game against 50 Artemis bots with 85% critical chance and Deathbringer in the mix too. I took about 480 hits from the bots) building Spectral Armor on Geb makes him nearly immune to crits. In combination with Geb's passive, hard as rock, making crits do on 25% extra damage and this item making them do only 50% extra, there is a total of 125% critical damage reduction. Against a Hunter or Assassin who has build death bringer, their crits do an extra 130% damage to you leaving a whopping 5% bonus in the damage, which basically makes you immune to critical hits, which can be pretty major against someone who doesnt just build Qin's Sais against you.
Breastplate of Valor gives a large boost in physical protections with 65 as well as 300 extra mana and 10 MP5. What really makes it a decent item though is that it is relatively cheap and gives you 20% CDR on top of the physical protections that it gives. Given that I find myself going for other CDR items, it doesn't always have a place in my builds, but it is a good item when you devote 4 items to counterbuilding somone I.E. Bakasura.
There is a plethora of helpful items in the game, often times an items use comes based on the enemy team and what exactly is causing you the most problems. I'll go into some detail here explaining briefly when the best situations are to build each of these items.
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stone of gaia |
winged blade |
relic dagger
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Defensive Items
Mantle of Discord is generally my first go to when in need of both magical and physical protections. Considering that the most you get from any single item for protections is 70, getting 60 of each from one item is a really good bonus. It also gives a 10% CDR, allowing for even more options in that department, as well as a passive that can help get you out of a fight, or potentially turn the tide of a battle. This item potentially gives you a second 5-man stun, so long as they're all within the 20 units of you, which is unlikely. Even so, you do gain 1 second of CC immunity when you drop below 30% health, which can be extremely helpful in the right situation.
Spirit Robe is a great alternative or companion to mantle of discord as it gives 40 of each protection, which is respectable, as well as 10% CDR and 20% CCR. It also has the added benefit of giving you 15% damage mitigation after taking a hard CC. If you were to combine this with Oni Hunter's Garb, you could be seeing yourself with a 39% damage reduction on top of all your protections.
Utility
Stone of Binding is a good item for many purposes. At 30 of each protection, 20 power, and a 15 pen buff for your allies when you hit any of your abilities, all for 1700 gold, its a pretty good item to pick up in a pinch.
Relic Dagger is another one I don't often look at, but it also gives a sizable 300 health and 10% move-speed and CDR. It will also give you a 30 second CDR on your relics. I'd leave it to you if you wanna grab that one, it really depends on how often you are using your relics, and if you are often struggling with their cooldowns.
Counter-building
Stone of Gaia moves away from orthodox protection giving defensive items, but instead gives a boatload of health clocking in at 400, as well as 25 HP5 and 15 Mp5. The item focuses on regeneration. The item also has 2 passives to further aid your inability to die. The first being great primarily against gods with CCs that can alter your position, which is mostly going to be a warrior or a guardian. The second passive just helps you regenerate massive amounts of health over time. If you find yourself in very long fights in the jungle often, it can be the difference between half health and three quarters health as you'll regenerate 3% every 10 seconds.
Winged Blade tends to be helpful against a team with a lot of slows. Not only does it help counter them by giving you an extra 10% movement speed and 20% CCR, it can also completely negate a slow and increase your movement speed every 30 seconds. Often I'll forget that this item gives an extra 300 health as well, but it is certainly a helpful addition.
Aside from being unbelievably tanky, and lacking the ability to die in many situations, as the support another way to help out your team is to provide auras with many helpful buffs to them. Unless specified otherwise, the range is 70 units.
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heartward amulet |
sovereignty |
pestilence |
shogun's kusari |
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witchblade
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Heartward Amulet provides you and your team a steady supply of magical protections and MP5. As the holder of the item you get an extra 250 health, 70 magical protections, and 20 MP5 with the aura included. Any allied god nearby will receive an extra 15 magical protections and the 20 MP5 as well. Personally, I feel this item is better early game, because often times, mana does not become a major issue late game, even for the most mana hungry gods in the game. They normally have items in their builds that negate the need for 20 MP5.
Sovereignty is the physical counterpart to Heartward Amulet. As the holder of it you receive 250 health, 60 physical protections, and 25 HP5. Similarly, any nearby ally will get an extra 15 physical protections and 25 HP5. In longer team-fights this can be particularly helpful by regenerating 5 health per second for your team. I generally think this would be more effecting than the aura on Heartward Amulet.
Pestilence is listed earlier under magical protections because it gives so many of them, and the anti-heal can always be applied to normal enemy HP5 (I believe, that makes sense anyway). Against a team with a healer, it is absolutely crucial to build anti-heal. You don't want an Aphrodite waltzing in and completely healing a 3000 health brick wall to full health in the matter of 12 seconds, do you? Generally, no. So I list it here again for its 25% anti-heal Aura.
Shogun's Kusari marks where the auras become more offensive for your team. On top of being a good magical defense item with 60 protections, 10% CDR and 20% CCR as well as 20 MP5, It gives a powerful attack speed aura for your team. This aura doesn't help you as a tank too much, but it certainly can help a hunter or an assassin quite a bit, in some cases warrior and mages can benefit greatly too (When I play Kukulkan, I'll sometimes do upwards of 200 damage per basic, it can get nasty). This is a helpful one if you've got the right team to combine it with.
Void Stone is another offensive aura item that gives the owner a good boost in magical defense. With 150 health and 60 magical protections it is a decent item defensively, but It also provides you with 20 power and an aura that reduces enemy magical protections by 15, which can be significant against a mage who has built nothing else for defense. This item also has a smaller aura at a range of 55 units
Mystical Mail offers a lot of health with 300, along with 40 physical protections and 20% CCR to help beef you up a bit. The aura on this item does not directly aid your team, but rather can build up quite a bit of damage on the enemy team in the case of a prolonged fight. Dealing 40 magical damage per second to enemies with 25 units of you can build up a good chunk of damage, especially on enemies with low amounts of protections. Also, just because its fun and really sad to die to, it gives you the ability to run people down. By that I mean you can walk with a fleeing enemy and it will slowly chip away with their health and kill them. Only do that if you know you can secure the kill regardless, don't try to if there's serious risk of them getting away.
Witchblade is not one I often go for, but it does give a bunch of good things that you could use to your advantage. It gives a respectable 200 health, 10% CDR, 10% movement speed and an extra 20% attack speed, but your basics are going to be doing about very little, so its not a huge boost. It does have a pretty decent aura on it though. The ability to reduce the enemies attack speed can be very nice, especially since this should be able to be combo'd with Midgardian Mail for a grand total of 44% attack speed loss.
I personally don't feel that
I'm in agreement about
I don't like Mystical for supports.
I don't think Shogun's, personally, should be core. Neither do I think Sov, BoV, or Nemean. Sov is core to me only when there are 3 physical gods, and usually when one is the ADC. BoV is when you don't get enough CDR from other items and you really want the boost (again, late-game preferred). Nemean is really only preferred against multiple basic attackers, and more specifically to counter crit builds.
I personally would prefer different categorization for some of the items. Items that I almost always put in counter-building include Midgardian, Witchblade, Pestilence, Nemean, Spectral.
Heartward should be considered when facing 3 magical. You may not build it often, but it should be a consideration.
I do agree (I remember seeing a comment somewhere down there) that Khep isn't just a backline support. Just like Geb and others that often need to focus on peeling and protecting, there are always going to be situations where the Support, if they've got good CC, should be the initiators.
In any case, I just can't agree with the build example, but you do have most of the item options covered.
As for
I can agree with not liking mystical on supports, its just a decent item if you want to go hyper-aggressive and still have some extra health and protections.
My idea with the Core section is getting to the 40% CDR, and the philosophy on
As far as the categorization, I do agree with what you have said, but I didn't want to list things twice as much as I could avoid it, and most of the good protections items are also great for counter-building. I could move some things around, but in the end, the items listed would mostly stay the same.
One last thing, both you and Kreiga have mentioned health as being heavily important, but I find myself not having problems in regards to my health. That said, I do, most games, build Sovereignty second item, giving a large boost to health and HP5
And, I think I've addressed everything. Thanks!
Sounds like you're localizing the concept of shoes. Part of the good MS boost they provide is getting you from lane to lane, or from backing back into the action. Many seconds will be lost if you don't have the MS.
As for Shoguns, using that example seems like an extreme example of a time it saved you. That's typically not how it will usually work if I were to guess. My conceptual points on when shoguns is best utilized stand in general use.
You're absolutely welcome to have your own opinion on things like shoguns, sov/heart/gauntlet, etc. I'm fine with that, I'm just letting you know my opinion and explaining my thoughts behind them.
I will say that I usually don't propose all 3 of sov/heart/gaunt. I usually like sov against 3 phys, or maybe heart against 3 mag. In some cases I'm okay with sov then gaunt if you really want higher phys prots in the item after sov, but don't want to ignore the magical prots. Thing is, these items are very functional, especially early game. Tee health all of these provide shouldn't be ignored. And you do need to keep in mind the resource you yourself linked... The word of Thoth. It talks about effective health. That's the combination of health and prots. You want a good balance of both to maximize your survivability.
Anyway, using sov as an example, the 15 protection aura will cancel out that amount of flat pen from an early pen item that the jungler or ADC might get (or a stone of binding if the support gets that). That absolutely has early value. Later, perhaps less. The hp5 is also nice early, as you say you actually like.
Basically you hopefully get the points I'm making. If you still prefer other things, that's fine, but I'm just saying choosing the best of these for the situation is never a bad choice as 2nd item after shoes.
As far as move-speed and shoes and all that, that will probably be the first thing I get to really playing around with in games, just so I can see how much difference it really makes for me. Regardless, I'll likely put in a guide that is more explicit on when I would buy shoes and what shoes to buy.
You're probably right about that being a rare instance of Shogun's being that vital to the game, and as far as the protections on it, I actually find that enemy Hunters don't shoot at me all that much, and even with Khepri, it can be easy enough to dodge them early game. I find myself taking much more damage from the guardians in the first 5 minutes or so of the game. That could just be me, or it could be the way that I play with my ADC.
As for the auras, you may be on to something, I've just had some comments that seem to imply that you need to buy all the aura items possible if you want to be a good support. Heartward I'll definitely look into because for some reason It never occurred to me that people might build pen that early, even though I've seen people get crusher that early. I'll definitely play around with getting heartward against a magical ADC or Jungle.
Thanks!
You should take 2 type mixed protection item. And that could give you cooldown for your very very important ult. And you leveled your ult o late imo.
And even Khepri would need boots.
Build part its not good but intro part is awesomely detailed. Well Done. But ı dont think deserves that much of attention or views dont get me wrong. I see your hard efforts man.
As for boots, I've been working with that down below with Kriega1 and Gulfwulf, I believe I'll be adding in an alternate move-speed section that way you can go super-fast once you get speed potion too.
Can you elaborate on what doesn't work for the build part? I'd love to get in there and make it better if I can. Part of the problem is probably that I initially made that section for Geb and haven't done the proper nitpicking though it.
Thanks!
Its a situational item. Aura items or boots would be much better as a core element.
But your potential build now looks a bit better.
As far as referring to shoes as core, I don't think I ever would call them core, though I can see where people might say move-speed is an absolute must for Khepri, I've definitely gotta play around with things here.
Thanks!
For example, as mentioned before, health is effective. Balance health with both protections and mitigations. Health and mitigations are also best against true damage.
Here's an example build. SHOES, Sovereignty, Shogun's Kusari, Breastplate of Valor, Oni Hunter's Garb, Midgardian Mail. No Spirit/gauntlet/Mantle but still effective.
If you're facing a weak early Duo comp, you can get away with a first item of sov or maybe gauntlet. Khep is one of those that can work because of his passive shield giving him some nice early suatain/survivability. Another one would be Ganesha due to his passive... You can be aggressive on the wave and always donate kills to stack without concern.
I can see how you see supports get blown up by going shoes first. Depends on their mindset and how much trouble the ADC gets into... This is a problem I have. I'm used to being tanky, and think the beginning of a match should give me that same survivability. Not the case. Supports still need to play smart, especially early game. And then you get the spoiled, non-aware ADCs that think you'll always cover for them and protect them. I get it. Also I'm drunk so ignore everything I say.
If you are going to consider selfish items they should be ones that help mitigate a lot of damage like
Your guide has no mention of
You've only mentioned 1 type of boots as well.
Some example builds:
(against 3 phys, 2 mag):
(against 3 mag, 2 phys):
Gauntlet of thebes/aura build:
(Pheonix sieging build/AA-heavy team comp):
None of your builds have mentioned
Example Starts:
The only relics that should be considered are:
If you want some more references for building khepri see if jeffhindla, polarbearmike or emilzy have some khepri videos on their youtube that are up to date or:
https://smiteprobuilds.com/Builds?p_filters_page=1&p_filters_search=&p_filters_god=2066&p_filters_pro=~&p_filters_opponent=~&p_filters_role=~&p_filters_league=~&p_filters_sort=~
Oh and regarding Executes/Counters:
Ahh, shoes... See, the thing is, which I have now added it to the guide, I don't build them. I've fully fleshed out my argument as to why in the guide now. Hate me for it if you will, but I don't build them generally speaking. Though even now, I'd have to recommend
"Please do not build meditation as its usefulness lategame is outclassed by Shell... (If you're not an idiot wasting all your mana)": Ok, first off, idiocy is not the only way to burn mana, often times for me is aggression. Khepri can be very dominant in lane if you keep the pressure up, doing that often requires using a lot of your abilities very often, even off of cool-very commonly. Second, Shell's usefulness has a duration of 3 seconds, Meditation has a duration of until it is lost. Of course, shell has the added benefit of two stacks of block when upgraded. Which brings me to my next point. Buy 'em both. Both can be helpful in their own right, and most times, I do end up with those two as my choice relics.
As for the executes, another victim of the guide being in progress.
And for your example builds, they aren't horrible, but I would not buy
Thanks for the comment, hopefully this clears some of it up.
You.... don't build boots? Not sure how to respond to that.
Thanks for the comment, hopefully this clears some of it up.
I know it's situational, and selfish. That's why I was confused you considered breastplate as core. (the other "core" items as well, but breastplate especially).
Mantle doesen't have health, thebes does. Mantle also has a different passive and is 500 gold more expensive, not really the 2 items you should be comparing together.
I never said buy it in most cases. I wouldn't consider it against standard team comps, I would consider it if the enemy team had 3 magicals and/or their main damage was from magical gods. Negating 15 magical pen with the aura definitely is not weak, especially when
Mantle vs. Thebes: The comparison came to be mainly due to their equivalence in protections. I don't believe the aura on Thebes is all the helpful, and from what I can tell, the numbers support my opinion so it comes down to what helps you survive more. The passive on Mantle in combination with the 10% CDR seem to do a better job in that department. As far as the 500 gold, lets assume you are splitting farm with your ADC at all times. At 3 minutes you'll get 7-10 gold per minion, any time past that you'll get more. Consider the 50 stacks your 500 gold difference. So yeah, it is cheaper, but by the time you get it online, you could have Mantle. Also, up until they're fully build, I prefer the mid-tier items for Mantle to the one on Thebes. Lastly on this one, The amount of Health Thebe's gives is pretty good, but ultimately, a hunter can knock that out with one or two basics if they're building properly.
The protections are heartward's aura are probably the last reason I would buy it honestly. The magical protections for me and the aura MP5 would be the primary reasons, and MP5 isn't needed all that much come the time when team-fights start happening. Thus me not building it.
I may revisit the shoes topic, Gulfwulf actually brought a pretty good point to mind, though even in teh case of needing movement speed, I'd probably do
2. you are trash.
3. Back line support??? Khepri ain't no *****
4. you are trash
5. Boots? no point.
6. you are trash.
7. you are PS4 lol
8. The guide mentioned the executes first thing under the pros and cons.
9. Curses Ankh... Really?
10. You are trash.