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Forum » New Player Help » Dota2 player looking for some clarifications 10 posts - page 1 of 1
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sarpton » May 31, 2014 10:43am | Report
Got some questions regarding some differences in Smite vs Dota2.

-How important is securing last hits, should I bother?

-with no way to deny creeps how do I manage creep equilibrium , and should I bother?

-What Items should I be building for for magic immunity ( I haven't seen anything like a BKB) or silences?

-How does the Fog of War work? *say in the jungle for a gank it shows the hero thru walls once i get within a distance do they also see me?

-How does attack power relate to actual damage?

-Is there a way to check hero items * friendly or enemy* if not how do you tailor your items builds to counter them? Is it important to counter build?

- When a hero goes very high magic damage how do counter said damage? (besides just stack health)

- What are the creep spawn timers *jungle and lane*?

-When creep skipping do I get xp from the enemy creeps and the jungle creeps? Or only if I get the last hit on both

- what is the xp range?

-How important is the meta? *is trilaning a thing in this? Are certain gods roles cut in stone? Do I lose efficiency in diving? Say I dive the tower and get the first blood but die to the tower what exactly happens. In dota sometimes it's worth it to do that because you get gold that's can't be lost and the xp for the hero kill and deny the hero you dived xp thus gaining a level advantage and gold lead.

Sure hope someone can shed some light on these questions I'd like to get better at this because it's different than dota and is more "fun". But I feel like I am wasting time becasue I don't know enough and haven't had my questions answered in game.

Sarpton



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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by TheAmazingComicBookGuy » May 31, 2014 11:06am | Report
- You should try, but it's mostly important with items that have stacks
- You should always push, a creep wave is always gonna meet up in the middle of the lane anyways (or very close to it), but you do not want the creeps getting killed by a tower, because you will loose out on gold.
- Aegis and beads are as close as it gets, aegis is damage immunity (but you stun yourself) and beads is cc immunity.
- You only see someone trough a wall if you or your allies has vision of them
- Yes, it gives you basic attacks damage and your abilities that scale off them
- Press and hold tab, you can see their build
- Build magic defense items
- Jungle spawns at 0:10 and lane spawns at 0:00
- I am not sure what this means, but if you mean pulling, that doesn't exist in smite.
- Not sure on the exact range, but you don't have to be hugging them. Just take a comfortable distance. If you stand between the melee and ranged creeps you won't miss anything that I know for sure.
- Meta is very important in conquest (normal 3 lane dota-style mode). Trilanes are not a thing. You have a solo (fire giant/vulcano side)-jungle-solo mid-and a duo (gold fury side). Diving later on if you are a tanky god is fine, but I wouldn't do it early on. Towers are pretty strong early. Not sure about the last interaction, but I'm fairly sure you don't get exp after dying (you do get gold). It's worth diving and dying if s support god can exchange his life for the enemy carry for instance.

Correct me if I'm wrong on these.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Talenhiem » May 31, 2014 11:09am | Report
1.) They matter enough that you should bother, but not enough that you end up not pushing the wave - you get gold and EXP if anything allied other than towers/pheonixes/the titan kills the creep and you're in range, but not as much as you would get if you last-hitted. Towers/etc. only give the reduced EXP.

2.) You don't. You try to put as much pressure on the opposing laner's tower as possible - an early tower kill is big, and you'll be denying them gold. And if an enemy rotates, your laner in that lane should go with them or call MIA, so you retreat before they get to you.

3.) There's no magic immunity. There's only magical protection. On carries, you usually build full damage, with no care for protections. You also can't buy anything for silences - nothing like a Scythe or a Divine Scepter, either. Also, I'll note here that just because you get gold faster doesn't mean you should rush Rage or Deathbringer - that'd be like getting a Daedalus or a Scythe as your first/second item.

4.) FoW isn't shown on the map - it's very strange. Nothing sees through walls, except maybe Odin's passive.

5.) Gods are either 100% physical or 100% magical. Physical gods have 100% of their physical power number added to the damage their basic attacks do - so a phys god with 100 phsyical power's basic attacks will do 100 more damage per hit pre-protections than the same god with 0 phys power. However, phsy gods have much less scaling on their abilities than mages.

6.) press Tab. It will show their build. It is VERY important to counter-build, but make sure the right person does it.

7.) Magical protection. I really don't know how the algoritms work, but you (roughly) halve the damage of any magical damage if you have 1 magical protection item AND the enemy mage hasn't built any penetration. There are three good magical prot items: Bulwark of Hope, Stone of Gaia (defensive Heart), and Pestilence. There are other good ones, like Hide of the Urchin, but those are mixed.

8.) Jungle: Baby harpies, I think 1 min or 1 min 20 sec, I don't know; Mid harpies, 3 min; Buff camps, 4 min. Lane: A new wave spawns every 30 seconds.

9.) uh... creep skipping?

10.) No idea.

11.) Lolno, trilane isn't a thing. The meta is MUCH closer to the LoL meta than the DotA meta. It sucks, but it is what it is. If the enemy god you dived didn't damage you, the tower will be contributed to the kill, so the enemy god doesn't get gold. If he did damage you, though, he will gain gold+EXP as if he normally killed you.

EDIT: jeez, Comic's avatar looks like Golden Chronos is just looking up from a sniper rifle @[email protected]

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Devampi » May 31, 2014 11:35am | Report
Talenhiem wrote:

EDIT: jeez, Comic's avatar looks like Golden Chronos is just looking up from a sniper rifle @[email protected]


fear sniper chronos lol

Devampi
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by TheAmazingComicBookGuy » May 31, 2014 11:53am | Report
Devampi wrote:



fear sniper chronos lol

Nothing personal, you were just... OUT OF TIME :D

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sarpton » May 31, 2014 1:55pm | Report
Okay thanks guys this has cleared up some things for me. And some clarification from me creep skipping is fighting the wave behind their tower so your creeps get to the tower faster. And while I've been doing that I've had to run and the creeps followed me so I just scraped them off on a jungle camp the creeps and the jungle creeps fought I didn't have time to see if i got xp because i got ganked but it seemed they were fighting each other. I'm not sure of the map I did it on but I'll try and experiment some and see if I can recreate it.

*note it was enemy creeps that followed me to a near by jungle camp and seemed to fight the jungle creeps after I broke LOS. But it could have been a coincident.*

Also shoudl i finish items or just get many T1 items early and then upgrade one by one?

Sarpton



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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Devampi » May 31, 2014 3:02pm | Report
Sarpton wrote:

Okay thanks guys this has cleared up some things for me. And some clarification from me creep skipping is fighting the wave behind their tower so your creeps get to the tower faster. And while I've been doing that I've had to run and the creeps followed me so I just scraped them off on a jungle camp the creeps and the jungle creeps fought I didn't have time to see if i got xp because i got ganked but it seemed they were fighting each other. I'm not sure of the map I did it on but I'll try and experiment some and see if I can recreate it.

*note it was enemy creeps that followed me to a near by jungle camp and seemed to fight the jungle creeps after I broke LOS. But it could have been a coincident.*

Also shoudl i finish items or just get many T1 items early and then upgrade one by one?


minions and jungle monsters will fight when the minions come into the circle (the circle if you leave the monsters stop attacking and if no one is there will fully heal)

Always lvl them because most passives (and stack items) only are at tier 3

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Wafflebob » June 1, 2014 12:40am | Report
Creep skipping sounds interesting. So if I understand correctly, when you would normally push a tower instead you let your creeps do it and circle around the tower and attack their creeps behind it. Meaning there's nothing distracting/killing the your creeps and they can just focus on the tower.

I'm still kind of a noob so I don't really know if that's a common tactic or not. I'd say it's in the realm of Jungler activity. I've done it to help put pressure on that lane. Like if the normal laners are at the tower and there are no enemy gods present and I'm waiting on jungle respawns, i'll jump into the lane behind the tower and wipe out the creeps before they can do any damage and let my team focus on the tower. If you want to be ballsy you can do it with an enemy god present in that lane as well. Jump in and gank him and wipe out the creeps usually using Fist of the Gods That said it's super risky because you are in enemy jungler territory and have nobody to hide behind and very few avenues of escape. You'll want to make sure that you have a ward with you so no enemy god's get the drop on you. Check out Subzero008's amazing jungling guide Found Here for more details on that kind of counter jungling.

Again, i'm kind of a noob myself so this kind of thing may be a totally bad idea, but I think I see what you are getting at.

Wafflebob



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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Devampi » June 1, 2014 1:29am | Report
Wafflebob wrote:

Creep skipping sounds interesting. So if I understand correctly, when you would normally push a tower instead you let your creeps do it and circle around the tower and attack their creeps behind it. Meaning there's nothing distracting/killing the your creeps and they can just focus on the tower.

I'm still kind of a noob so I don't really know if that's a common tactic or not. I'd say it's in the realm of Jungler activity. I've done it to help put pressure on that lane. Like if the normal laners are at the tower and there are no enemy gods present and I'm waiting on jungle respawns, i'll jump into the lane behind the tower and wipe out the creeps before they can do any damage and let my team focus on the tower. If you want to be ballsy you can do it with an enemy god present in that lane as well. Jump in and gank him and wipe out the creeps usually using Fist of the Gods That said it's super risky because you are in enemy jungler territory and have nobody to hide behind and very few avenues of escape. You'll want to make sure that you have a ward with you so no enemy god's get the drop on you. Check out Subzero008's amazing jungling guide Found Here for more details on that kind of counter jungling.

Again, i'm kind of a noob myself so this kind of thing may be a totally bad idea, but I think I see what you are getting at.


It can be done but this mostly happens much later because early game minions can kill you with ease. And creep skipping isn't something a jungler should do early game. however a jungler should counter jungle (stealing buff camps an maybe smaller furies)

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by BestMinionEver » June 1, 2014 6:14am | Report
Sarpton wrote:

-How important is securing last hits, should I bother?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Smite/comments/1xm98h/last_hitting_minions/
As you can see getting last hits is pretty damned important at least if you try to play the game properly, but the fact that you get gold without last hitting means that you can just chill if you want. But you should bother yourself with getting them if you really want to win :)

Sarpton wrote:

-with no way to deny creeps how do I manage creep equilibrium , and should I bother?

You either zone (most effective in duo lane or if you are really big and can kill the enemy by looking at him) or simply push into the tower. Zoning is a lot more effective than pushing and it is something a lot of ppl should begin doing a lot more of. Just force the enemy god out of creep range and let the minions kill each other. That way you get the gold and exp from your minions killing his minions, but the enemy god gets nothing (early game exp is EXTREMELY important in Smite). If you need stacks you go for last hits on his minions, if you do not need stacks just let the wave kill all the minions. You really need wards for doing this though, because you are a easy gank for a jungler when you are pushed so far up.
When you are pushing into tower the tower denies some exp and every minion hit by the tower gives no gold (even if you last hit it). So if you do not have enough damage or ward coverage to safely force the enemy god out of minion range this will give you at least some kind of advantage. It lets you rotate more freely (so run into the jungle the second you clear the wave and just jump around or something, this puts a lot of pressure on the enemy team even though you are not doing anything), but it makes it impossible for your jungle to gank.
So again if you really want to play the game properly you should bother with trying to zone or push hard and then "fake" rotate.

Sarpton wrote:

-What Items should I be building for for magic immunity ( I haven't seen anything like a BKB) or silences?

Greater Aegis and Greater Purification

Sarpton wrote:

-How does the Fog of War work? *say in the jungle for a gank it shows the hero thru walls once i get within a distance do they also see me?

Vision is global, so friendly gods or wards having vision on a enemy god means that you can see the enemy god as well. If a enemy god or enemy ward got vision of you the enemy team can see you through walls.

Sarpton wrote:

-How does attack power relate to actual damage?

You have in hand damage and actual attack power (physical power in this chase) which is shown here:
The in hand damage for physical gods are 100% of your physical power and for magical it is 20% of your magical power.

And abilities get a set % of your power, Time Rift gets 85% of your power as damage (so Bancroft's Talon without the passive gives you 85 damage etc.).

Sarpton wrote:

-Is there a way to check hero items * friendly or enemy* if not how do you tailor your items builds to counter them? Is it important to counter build?

Default key-binding is Tab, then you can see the scoreboard with items kills, power, health etc (by moving mouse over the different sections).
Counter building depends on what you are playing, if you jungle all you need to look for is if the enemy team has a lot of protections if they do build penetration. If not build damage. As support you need to think about stuff like Pestilence and Weakening Curse if there is a healer on the enemy team, if you have to stack a certain type of protection or if you need health etc. As ADC your build is pretty much set in stone, some lifesteal, crit, attack speed and some pen. In solo lane you have a lot more counter building items like Divine Ruin against healers, magical protection as brawlers vs mages, Void Stone and helath as mage vs mage if the enemy builds Doom Orb etc. As mid you pretty much just want to get your damage going, but Breastplate of Valor can be needed if you are camped by a physical jungler etc. but mostly you get actives to keep you alive and items with damage.

Sarpton wrote:

- When a hero goes very high magic damage how do counter said damage? (besides just stack health)

Bulwark of Hope if you are a tank and maybe Stone of Gaia if it is a full team of magical damage that is just dumpstering everything in their path. If you are a mage building warlock's sash and Void Stone will give you a ton of health plus protections which will save you a lot. If it is god with burst damage Greater Aegis is also a really god pickup for anything other than support and pretty much the only viable options for ADC and other physical carries.

Sarpton wrote:

- What are the creep spawn timers *jungle and lane*?

http://smite.gamepedia.com/Jungle
Waves spawn every 30 seconds.

Sarpton wrote:

-When creep skipping do I get xp from the enemy creeps and the jungle creeps? Or only if I get the last hit on both

This pretty much only occurs when you have the fire giant buff, you have forced the enemies back or killed them or if a tower is like 1-2 hits. Most of the time you need a tanky teammate to tank the tower or a healer that can heal you while a carry kills it. It is pretty much impossible to do it solo until really late game and even then you need a lot of pen due to towers having (i think) 200 protections. So it is not a strategy that is used much in Smite unless you get a decide etc.

EDIT
Saw what you meant about it now. And yeas it something you can do, but mostly if you have forced the enemy god back and already have minions in the enemy tower. Then it can be a good idea to go and kill the enemy wave before it reaches your wave, because your minions will aggro off the tower and kill the minions instead and if you are a mage the minions deal more damage to the tower than you do :P
I am pretty sure that you do not get exp or gold from minions killing camps. Before the minions dropped to the floor minions could actually steal buffs if they got the last hit. Not sure how it works now.
Always finish items, boots rank 2 are viable other than that finish items before building new once.

Sarpton wrote:

- what is the xp range?

If you mean to lvl up your account this is the numbers:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Smite/comments/1y7cac/anybody_know_the_required_exp_amounts_per_each/

Not sure about in game :P

Sarpton wrote:

-How important is the meta? *is trilaning a thing in this? Are certain gods roles cut in stone? Do I lose efficiency in diving? Say I dive the tower and get the first blood but die to the tower what exactly happens. In dota sometimes it's worth it to do that because you get gold that's can't be lost and the xp for the hero kill and deny the hero you dived xp thus gaining a level advantage and gold lead.

The meta is alpha and omega. You need to understand it to be good and to be great you have to be able to **** the meta with a big fat stick up the *** ;)

Trilaning does not work due to exp and gold splitting just puts you way to much behind overall.

Diving can be worth, but you have to get the kill! It is so so so easy to just die and not even get the kill while diving especially early game. But the first blood gives extra gold so it is always good to get it. Even better is if the enemy you kill for example is the jungle who got a 400 pot which he will lose on a death. Then you suddenly put your jungler 400g ahead and you got yourself firstblood. But diving a tower before you are at least 5 is super risky and if you are on your own I'd say you would have to be at least 10 with a good chuck of health as well. If an enemy is super low it is better to just let him back and push or zone him. If you dive and die you can be 99% sure of that the enemy god will get the kill from you dying. All he needs to do is deal 1 damage to you and if the tower kills you he gets the kill. If by a miracle he does not manage to hit you with anything he will still get an assist. So unless you are 100% sure that you can get out, the enemy has a 400 pot, the enemy has Doom Orb or Heartseeker it is not going to be worth it.

Smite rule #1 DON'T CHASE


Hope some of it helps you, if there is anything else you are wondering about just send me a PM and I'll answer as best as I can :)
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Make fun of my bad plays on Twitch ;)
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