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Attack Speed Build (& Comparison to Crit Builds)

4 1 2,502
7.4
by HankCantRank updated February 22, 2021

Smite God: Artemis

Build Guide Discussion 27 More Guides
Tap Mouse over an item or ability icon for detailed info

Build Summary

Buy Order

Notes VERY Thorough explanation at the end:

I usually only buy multi potion until I get Asi and then wards for the rest of the game.

Pick Asi before Rage if you are getting bullied, pick Rage if you think you can get stacks fast

Pick Silverbranch if somehow you are leveling up way more than your gold amount

As of lately, you will rarely even get to Hunter's Cowl (games end much faster)

Notes

VERY Thorough explanation at the end:

I usually only buy multi potion until I get Asi and then wards for the rest of the game.

Pick Asi before Rage if you are getting bullied, pick Rage if you think you can get stacks fast

Pick Silverbranch if somehow you are leveling up way more than your gold amount

As of lately, you will rarely even get to Hunter's Cowl (games end much faster)

Build Item Leather Cowl Leather Cowl
Build Item Ninja Tabi Ninja Tabi
Build Item Asi Asi
Build Item Rage Rage
Build Item Wind Demon Wind Demon
Build Item Silverbranch Bow Silverbranch Bow
Build Item Hunter's Cowl Hunter's Cowl
Build Item Elixir of Speed Elixir of Speed
Build Item Deathbringer Deathbringer

Buy Order

Notes VERY Thorough explanation at the end:

I usually only buy multi potion until I get Asi and then wards for the rest of the game.

Pick Asi before Rage if you are getting bullied, pick Rage if you think you can get stacks fast

Pick Silverbranch if somehow you are leveling up way more than your gold amount

As of lately, you will rarely even get to Hunter's Cowl (games end much faster)

Notes

VERY Thorough explanation at the end:

I usually only buy multi potion until I get Asi and then wards for the rest of the game.

Pick Asi before Rage if you are getting bullied, pick Rage if you think you can get stacks fast

Pick Silverbranch if somehow you are leveling up way more than your gold amount

As of lately, you will rarely even get to Hunter's Cowl (games end much faster)

Build Item Leather Cowl Leather Cowl
Build Item Ninja Tabi Ninja Tabi
Build Item Asi Asi
Build Item Rage Rage
Build Item Wind Demon Wind Demon
Build Item Silverbranch Bow Silverbranch Bow
Build Item Hunter's Cowl Hunter's Cowl
Build Item Elixir of Speed Elixir of Speed
Build Item Deathbringer Deathbringer

Artemis's Skill Order Notes Nothing different here. Even if it is an attack speed build, you need your three to clear minions and all the usual boring early game stuff

Notes

Nothing different here. Even if it is an attack speed build, you need your three to clear minions and all the usual boring early game stuff

Transgressor's Fate

1 X Y
Transgressor's Fate
3 15 16 18 19

Vengeful Assault

2 A B
Vengeful Assault
2 8 11 12 14

Suppress The Insolent

3 B A
Suppress The Insolent
1 4 6 7 10

Calydonian Boar

4 Y X
Calydonian Boar
5 9 13 17 20
Transgressor's Fate
3 15 16 18 19

Transgressor's Fate

1 X
Artemis places a trap on the ground. Enemy gods coming within 5 units of her traps activate them, Rooting and Crippling the enemy god, preventing movement abilities and dealing damage every second for 3s.

Ability Type: Ground Target
Damage per Tick: 25 / 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 (+30% of your Physical Power)
Damage (Total): 75 / 120 / 165 / 210 / 255 (+90% of your Physical Power)
Root Duration: 2s
Max Traps: 3
Cost: 45
Cooldown: 18 / 16 / 14 / 12 / 10s
Vengeful Assault
2 8 11 12 14

Vengeful Assault

2 A
Artemis attacks at a furious pace, increasing her attack and movement speed significantly. Additionally, Artemis cleanses herself of slows and becomes immune to Slows for 0.6s when activated.

Ability Type: Buff
Attack Speed: 40 / 50 / 60 / 70 / 80%
Movement Speed: 20%
Duration: 3 / 3.5 / 4 / 4.5 / 5s
Cost: 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 / 80
Cooldown: 18 / 17 / 16 / 15 / 14s
Suppress The Insolent
1 4 6 7 10

Suppress The Insolent

3 B
Artemis fires a volley into a ground target, suppressing all of her enemies. Enemies caught within the volley are damaged and are slowed.

Ability Type: Ground Target
Damage: 80 / 130 / 180 / 230 / 280 (+60% of your Physical Power)
Slow: 25%
Slow Duration: 2s
Radius: 15
Cost: 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70
Cooldown: 10s
Calydonian Boar
5 9 13 17 20

Calydonian Boar

4 Y
Artemis summons the great Calydonian Boar on her enemies, doing damage to the nearest enemy god and Stunning them, and itself. The boar is immune until it hits the first god and then continues to charge other gods for its lifetime. Artemis is also immune to Crowd Control for 1.5s.

Ability Type: Area
Damage: 150 / 225 / 300 / 375 / 450 (100% of your Physical Power)
Stun: 1.1 / 1.2 / 1.3 / 1.4 / 1.5s
Boar Lifetime: 6s
Cost: 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120
Cooldown: 90s

Artemis Synergies

Tap each synergy level to view Artemis’s synergies

Ideal
1
Strong
0
OK
0
Low
0
None
0

Extended Build

Relics

Notes ALWAYS GET PURIFICATION is my rule.
The rest is by the situation and xZeroStrike has a way better explanation about the other relics

Notes

ALWAYS GET PURIFICATION is my rule.
The rest is by the situation and xZeroStrike has a way better explanation about the other relics

Build Item Purification Beads Purification Beads
Build Item Blink Rune Blink Rune
Build Item Aegis Amulet Aegis Amulet
Build Item Belt of Frenzy Belt of Frenzy
Build Item Heavenly Wings Heavenly Wings
Build Item Horrific Emblem Horrific Emblem

Starter

Notes I always use this regardless (may be my problem)

Notes

I always use this regardless (may be my problem)

Build Item Leather Cowl Leather Cowl
Build Item Boots Boots
Build Item Multi Potion Multi Potion
3
Build Item Purification Beads Purification Beads

Defensive

Notes So what if you are getting bulliest constantly? This build doesn't have alot of defensive flexibility sadly. Luckily there are some offensive/defensive options.

Shogun if you absolutely need the defense but luckily silverbranch makes that aura equal to 25 power.

Poison star if you can get at least one or two shots in to make space.

Magi cloak if it's cc hell and Mantle of Discord if you drop hp low often (synergies great with Asi and Artemis passive)

Notes

So what if you are getting bulliest constantly? This build doesn't have alot of defensive flexibility sadly. Luckily there are some offensive/defensive options.

Shogun if you absolutely need the defense but luckily silverbranch makes that aura equal to 25 power.

Poison star if you can get at least one or two shots in to make space.

Magi cloak if it's cc hell and Mantle of Discord if you drop hp low often (synergies great with Asi and Artemis passive)

Build Item Poisoned Star Poisoned Star
Build Item Shogun's Kusari Shogun's Kusari
Build Item Magi's Cloak Magi's Cloak
Build Item Mantle of Discord Mantle of Discord

They Heal too much

Notes HOPEFULLY you only need to use shadowsteel.

If you can live without Asi (remember leather cowl has life steal) then toxic blade is an easy replacement

Notes

HOPEFULLY you only need to use shadowsteel.

If you can live without Asi (remember leather cowl has life steal) then toxic blade is an easy replacement

Build Item Shadowsteel Shuriken Shadowsteel Shuriken
Build Item Toxic Blade Toxic Blade

Enemy has alot of Prot :(

Notes Again better analysis at the below but in general, you need a balance between penetration and power or else what's the point of sacrificing it all. The current lategame build is enough imo, avg of 650 dps against a 200prot enemy but these are the replacements I would suggest. Maybe you don't want wind demon proc or if they aren't hurting you too much take executioner over Asi.

Dominance is the new S8 favorite but the Executioner works with this build best.

Notes

Again better analysis at the below but in general, you need a balance between penetration and power or else what's the point of sacrificing it all. The current lategame build is enough imo, avg of 650 dps against a 200prot enemy but these are the replacements I would suggest. Maybe you don't want wind demon proc or if they aren't hurting you too much take executioner over Asi.

Dominance is the new S8 favorite but the Executioner works with this build best.

Build Item The Executioner The Executioner
Build Item Qin's Sais Qin's Sais
Build Item Dominance Dominance
Build Item Berserker's Shield Berserker's Shield

Alternative Starter

Notes More details below but it has potential to be better or worse.

Notes

More details below but it has potential to be better or worse.

Build Item Eye Of The Jungle Eye Of The Jungle
Build Item Protector Of The Jungle Protector Of The Jungle

DPS for your Dollar

Notes Slightly less damage but being able to get your Endgame/Lategame build for $13150/$17650 is lowkey insane.

Notes

Slightly less damage but being able to get your Endgame/Lategame build for $13150/$17650 is lowkey insane.

Build Item Eye Of The Jungle Eye Of The Jungle
Build Item Ninja Tabi Ninja Tabi
Build Item Devourer's Gauntlet Devourer's Gauntlet
Build Item Rage Rage
Build Item Silverbranch Bow Silverbranch Bow
Build Item Wind Demon Wind Demon
Build Item Protector Of The Jungle Protector Of The Jungle
Build Item Elixir of Speed Elixir of Speed
Build Item Deathbringer Deathbringer

Introduction

Hello, I am Hank. As of this guide I am account level 24. OKAY HOLD ON WAIT DON'T LEAVE. I am an MMORPG main and a numbers guy so at least let me prove my point on why this build isn't just good...it is GREAT (works on Apollo too but I don't like managing his passive).

So not only will I explain this build but I'll also compare its weaknesses and strengths compared to the generic examples of xZeroStrike's and Jakkyr's guides which are probably better than mine.

I won't really explain anything like how to play Artemis or the skills or whatever because honestly what I can do is explain how Vengeful Assault plays into this

Table of Contents:

    1.
TL;DR

2. Vengeful Assault: why is this so important

3. Comparison to the other builds: WARNING VERY LONG SECTION

4. Super high potential even past what's on paper

5. Generic Build logic:: Explain why I picked it and how it comes to play

TL;DR

TL;DR
First of all, I AM NOT trying to disregard the other 2 builds. They are obviously more experienced and better (I can't even play ranked yet). I just wanted to compare and show the benefits of each.

The build - mathematically does ALOT of damage is cheap; You want cheaper? Switch out Leather Cowl for Eye Of The Jungle, Want cheaper??? Switch out Asi for Devourer's Guantlet.
DPS difference is very small for the cowl vs jungle item. Asi is +150dps on low protection (less than 70) but -100 dps on high protection (greater than 300).
Flexibility of the build - actually not very so keep in mind it's weaknesses and how changing it up can be
Playstyle - you are Artemis, you auto attack, build crit, shoot fast and stay by teammates so you don't get cc-d a single time and fall apart worse than a paper boat through niagra falls. That being said you are much more reliant on Vengeful Assault
Other builds (in my opinion)- If you expect a short game xZero's build works best. If you expect a game where you think you'll be using Vengeful Assault as a pseudo escape or you expect to be alone alot? go Jakkyr. NONE OF THESE THREE BUILDS ARE BAD.

Generic Build Logic

Leather Cowl - Fantastic starter item. Power, Attack speed, and life steal all in one with a little bonus that fits the situation. Duo lane boxing? Get more life steal. You need to GTFO because you are the only one alive? movement speed

Ninja Tabi - You are an auto Attacker but don't worry come endgame this correlates to more power :D

Asi - with the fall of Atalanta's Bow, Asi has been my fan favorite. In my eyes it is a weaker version of Atalanta's bow and Devourer's Guantlet BUT it combines both of them to make something better. Additionally, with Leather Cowl having lifesteal, this should be more than enough for the rest of the game. I like getting this as the third item because 15 pen in the early game can do wonders. Endgame the boxing potential is insane with a total of 65% life steal when you are in a pinch. The only thing that can really stop you is CC or being a bad player like me.

Alternative Item #2; Devourer's Gauntlet - you want to save money and have more reliable life steal this is your guy. You will do less damage then Asi for majority of scenarios but sometimes not as much. Early game we are talking 10s of less dps (depending on your stacks)
Lategame, it actually depends on the enemy protection.
<170 protection without steriods, Asi wins
<250 protection with steroids, Asi wins
End game, the thresholds are higher. Keep in mind this might not matter to you. Against 70 protection, Asi gets a higher auto attack dps of about 30 (150 with Vengeful Assault, but you have 50 more power which lets you close that gap slightly with ability damage. Here just have a graph, it's easier.
Rage - without a doubt critical is the highest way to boost your damage. No other item but Rage can provide an easy access to that kind of boost. Plus you want to grab this pretty early to grab stacks. This is roughly the stage of the game when kills start racking up. REMEMBER Assists count!


Silverbranch Bow - HAHAHAHAHAHA so at this point you should be nearing about 1.8~2.1 attack speed, depending on what level you are. But this is the pièce de ré·sis·tance. Penetration, power, attack speed, and basically uncapping vengeful assault and other attack speed buffs for you.

Wind Demon - I used to prefer Poison Star way more for getting easy access for Artemis' passive but then wind demon got more crit chance. The passive is great for getting more attack speed and penetration. This is also the awkward stage of the game imo. You are strong but you start receiving diminishing returns on Vengeful Assault. I tend to save it only to finish someone off or as an escape at this point.


Hunter's Cowl - More everything but now you can thank your team for letting you get to this point by giving them attack power

Deathbringer - on paper it is the highest DPS increase after Rage. However due to the cost, I save this for endgame. Also there are going to be some caveats for running this before SilverBranch bow such as all that attack speed goes to waste, why didn't I just go crit build? Okay okay I'm getting there

BONUS:
Leather Cowl& Hunter's Cowl vs Eye Of The Jungle & Protector Of The Jungle

On paper they may seem very different but they are almost effectively the same but more circumstantial.

For the tier 1, 15 power and 15% attack speed is nearly identical to 10 power and 20% attack speed.
For tier 2 AND with silverbranch bow, 60 power and 45% attack speed is exactly the same as 65 power and 35% attack speed.

So here's where you got to choose your preference and situation:
For the tier 1s, if you aren't playing duo lane then there is very little point of Leather Cowl. Now the lifesteal is nice early on but when you get Asi it get's a little redundant. Meanwhile Eye of the Jungle can give you more damage on Jungle monsters, which can definitely help and of course the kinda of meme Jungle Ward(?). The only thing left to compare is 10% lifesteal vs +15hp5, both of these stats probably only matter before Asi come in but on one hand you are getting +15hp per 5 seconds, on the other hand you probably heal for 5~10 hp per arrow depending on what you are hittng and what level are you.

MORE importantly are the Tier 2 versions. So I don't know how the math works but at level 20 and the builds above, somehow you get 5 more power with Hunter's Cowl over Protector of the Jungle. I am going to link the stat comparisons below


So you may be thinking, 5 power vs 35 protection? this should be a no brainer. However let's put some more thought into this.
Hunter's Cowl gives you the ability to escape with Ninja Tabi and all your friends dead, you can run away with 28% movement speed. It also gives you the ability to give everyone 25% attack speed and guess what?IT STACKS WITH SHOGUN AURA
So if you have a team with another hunter, Freya, Ao Kuang, Sol, Bakasura, Osiris, etc. it would be pretty selfish not to run this build. On the otherhand, having 12% protection and power in the jungle where nowadays is quite common in the lategame could be absolutely huge. I'll leave this to your discretion. Oh and naturally outside of Conquest you can't really use anything but Hunter's Cowl.

Vengeful Assault

VENGEFUL F-ING ASSAULT


Considered one of the best self-buffs in the game with huge attack speed buff, movement speed, and duration.

So here's the problem: It gets worse in damage the later you are in the game!

The cap for attack speed is 2.5, any higher and it's all gone. You have a few options to work with this for Artemis:
    Manage around it: you purposely build power and crit but keep roughly .8 below the attack cap. However, no matter how you do it you will always be a little above 1.7 Attack speed if you have leather cowl. This doesn't include teammates buffs, Belt of Frenzy, Shogun Aura, or even void buff.

    Ignore it and do as well as you can: well that might put you at about 2x attack speed and so you burst damage from Vengeful Assault is well not that impressive. It does let you use it more often as a pseudo escape though

    EMBRACE IT: now with silerbranch bow, you venegful assault is a whopping 80 power boost, pair it up with Wind demon and you can chase anyone down.

As you can tell, I've really embraced it and now the next section is going to just show you the comparison

Comparison

NOTE: need to compare to Jakkyr's latest build. This is not updated yet, See exact items used to calculate dps below. Some maths will likely still need to be edited

The moment you've been waiting for. Here I will compare

    xZeroStrike's Example full build (with Ninja Dabi)
    Jakkyr's Finish build (with Ninja Dabi)
    My build with Ninja Dabi

    AND Compare them all with vengeful assault active (Yes it does make a difference!)
I will dub this the "Lategame builds"

But wait there's more?
    xZeroStrike's Example full build (elixer of speed)
    Jakkyr's Finish build (elixer of speed)
    My build in the end (elixer of speed)

    AND Compare them all with vengeful assault active (Yes it does make a difference!)
I will dub this the "Lategame builds"

Alright so here are the builds:
LATEGAME:
xZeroStrike
Hunter's Cowl Ninja Tabi Devourer's Gauntlet Dominance Rage Deathbringer

Jakkyr
Ornate Arrow Ninja Tabi Dominance Asi Rage Wind Demon

Me
Hunter's Cowl Ninja Tabi Asi Rage Wind Demon Silverbranch Bow

ENDGAME:
xZeroStrike
Hunter's Cowl Devourer's Gauntlet Dominance Rage Deathbringer Poisoned Star

Jakkyr
Ornate Arrow Dominance Asi Rage Wind Demon Deathbringer

Me
Hunter's Cowl Asi Rage Wind Demon Silverbranch Bow Deathbringer

So the comparison is purely in auto attacks. There are outlying assumptions at the bottom but here's a graph for the more visual learners. (sorry for the colors, google sheets doesn't let me change that)
So this is assuming the following:
    Assumes max stacks on all items
    Assumes nearby allie for cowl
    Assumes Wind Demon Active
    Assumes ornate arrow is maxed
    Vengeful Assault Active
    Ninja Tabi Endgame
    Does not account for cc for artemis passive because that will get complex
At the very left is 70 protection which is probably one of the lowest barebones protection at level 20, At the very right is 300 protection.
Of course there is more to matter but let's simply this. So interesting thing to note:
xZero has 20% penetration
Jakkyr has 15 flat and 30% pen
I have 15 flat and 20% pen
Very rarely did penetration matter in terms of which build does more damage

Notice how the difference in dps jumps when Vengeful Assault is active. Jakkyr gets much less damage because his build uses attack speed to compensate for ornate arrow, while xZero is well undercapped in attack speed and my build has silverbranch. Overall the dps is roughly the same without 2 active but then there is a difference from Jakkyr's build and the other two. (I will get to the non-auto attack information AFTERWARDS)

So you'd think this is all the information you need right?

But then you look at the

ENDGAME



And the results are not what I expected:
You've sold your boots. Picked up the next best item and now you're ready to kick *ss and drink an elixir of speed.

So I said before that Deathbringer is one of the biggest damage boosts you can get and this graph shows it. xZero's build which already had Deathbringer barely moved, while Jakkyr's and mine shot up like crazy. The other thing is because Poisoned Star adds enough attack to the crit build, that attack speed cap is closer and vengeful assault reaches diminshing results sooner. With vengeful assault active, xZero's build does LESS damage than Jakkyr's build without it. And then of course to toot my own horn, sure my build does less damage than xZero's without vengeful assault (~60dps) but by the power of Silverbranch Bow, my damge is between 100 dps against high protection and 200 dps more on low protection.

Ok so damage isn't everything. Here is the other information that is just as relevant.Red being far below in COMPARISON, Orange being ok but still has a difference between the highest, and Gren being noticeable higher. The 3 right columns are with venegeful assault activated. (You can also see how protection really influences you base power)

Lifesteal- So first thing is lifesteal, xZeroStrike's build has more sustainable lifesteal, Jakkyr's build relies much more on that burst lifesteal from asi, and my build is in the middle (Unless you go for that Eye Of The Jungle path.)
Power- why does power matter when Artemis is an Auto Attack god? well because Miss Piggy Calydonian Boar, one of the best ults in the game, gets 100% of your physical power at max level.
Money- Games are getting shorter so I feel it is important to acknowledge how fast it is to get to a certain build. Jakkyr's build relies on Ornate Arrow being maxed out, and of course with its passive and the previous Gilded Arrow can help get there faster. Is it worth 15% more cost than the other 2 builds? That is up to you, because getting to Endgame may be way faster with Ornate Arrow. While it is $3000 more than the other 2 builds, by this point you've had that arrow for awhile so perhaps this is easy (Don't forget you need to buy speed elixir).
Penetration - does not matter, as I've already shown in the plots that include penetration value, there really isn't a point at looking at this anymore. (That being said the builds with Dominance will not get penetration with Artemis' abilities)
MP5 - Did not include this but since xZero and Jakkyr use Dominance, that's an additional 20MP5 and 200 Mana. May save on potions in the long run, but definitely very helpful early game.
Stackling - all these builds need to stack Rage, but only xZeroStrike's build requires Devourer's Gauntlet to stack which is just one more thing to note.
Wind Demon - xZero's build does not require Wind Demon to proc. There is a chance you just don't get lucky or have a minion nearby to gain the passive.
Starter Item - and just to beat a dead horse. Since mine and Xzero's build use Leather Cowl and Hunter's Cowl, you have to play with the team to really get the most use of the builds.

Super high potential even past what's on paper

THE SKY IS THE LIMIT



So this build is strong, but it can get even stronger. Let's say you want be a nice teammate and let your jungle and mid take both attack buffs. Well now the void buff can give you 10 power or if enhanced 25 power. Now I know it's not as good (You get roughly 20 power in lategame with this build) but it's helpful.

And of course like I said beforeStacking 2 attack speed auras, where the whole team has +50% attack speed??? That's insane

Belt of Frenzy just got even better with already it's base 10% damage buff but another 15 power to go on top of that.

Fafnir on your team? Coerce just gave you 30 more power.

And then there's the opposite situation.

You got hit by Fostbound Hammer or they stacking Witchblade? Yes it sucks to lose power but you still have a whopping 2.5 attack speed.

And finally, skill ceiling. I suck at this game, probably because I am new is what I tell myself. I try not to miss, but it happens. Being able to ALWAYS be at a 2.5 fire rate can significantly help a player (maybe it'll bring up so bad habits but it shouldn't!).

Oh and I guess there are some bad habits that this build may promote. Again you get to take more shots and maybe miss more. You get more movement speed so maybe you overextend because you know you can get away with it. You feel the adrenaline of knowing you have 1500 dps against a 300 protection God and just see red. That's my fault not yours. Err the other way around.

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2
z00ted | March 8, 2021 11:18pm
Controversial to some? Maybe- but you can't deny this legit rakes @L20 for an endgame most teams can't expect or handle.
1
Branmuffin17 (348) | February 22, 2021 8:23pm
Hey Hank,

Alright, let's see where this goes. Firstly, I want to say again that it's really cool that even at an early stage of your SMITE career, you've already delved into the numbers. It's clear the game has you hooked, and playing with the numbers and understanding the mechanics can be totally fun. Hope you keep this up. I was similar, but with regard to build variation in Assault...brought my Assault guide out pretty early in my SMITE playing days.

You seem to have a pretty good overall grasp of most of the item concepts, build requirements, and build structure. This isn't to say that I think I'd build necessarily the same way, but I usually don't deep-dive into a build's numbers, because while it's important to make a build with good end DPS, it's also important to consider other factors, such as:
  • Power spike / damage progression throughout the match
  • Cost of items at various points of the match
  • Intangibles or stats that have utility that's not always factored into the DPS calcs
You've already touched on some of these with Devampi. This feels like, and I think you'd agree, that you're not looking at the best build, you're playing a numbers game and looking at highest potential DPS with a bit less consideration to the variables that happen within individual matches. Basically, this is like sports analytics rather than the "eye test."

To that, we've got some general concepts:
  • Power vs AS: a balance of power and attack speed is important when specifically considering optimal DPS at a specific stage of a match. Building a lot of AS in the front end and catching up with power at the end isn't optimal, even if the end build has the same damage potential. This may or may not be a HUGE issue if you're not looking to do much more than farm early and force a stalemate in lane, but it will still affect your damage potential on key objectives like structures or the Gold Fury.

  • Penetration and Protection Reduction: One key difference between your build and Jakkyr's and xZero's is the lack of earlier penetration. This also comes into play with damage against tankier gods and structures, depending. In general, flat pen and % pen affect structures and objectives. Flat pen is better against low prot enemies. % pen is better against high prot enemies. % protection reduction doesn't affect structures, but allows that intangible of helping other physical teammates deal more damage. It does affect jungle objectives and can make a bigger difference if the team is taking GF / Pyro / FG.

  • Sustain: Both health and mana. Tough to determine how much you want / need. With regard to health, it's all about lifesteal, or if you are to consider Death's Toll, health regen. Interesting fact, DT provides health / mana RESTORE. This is separate from lifesteal, and IS NOT AFFECTED by anti-heal. But usually you're considering either Devourer's Gauntlet or Asi, or rarely both (early Devo's, late Tabi replacement of Asi or Bloodforge if enemy doesn't build anti-heal). Dev already discussed Devo's, which not only provides higher base lifesteal, but significantly more power (but no pen of any type).

    When going Leather Cowl, you're lacking in mana regen but you get decent health sustain. Unless you regularly pick up Mana Potions, you're going to start feeling that lack of mana, as your inherent MP5 is pretty low. This is one reason to consider an early Dominance, for its MP5. Getting Dom early isn't incredible for pen function against squishy targets, but it WILL be pretty nice if you're able to take towers or a jungle objective, and it solves having to get more pen in most of the rest of your build. This is also where you determine...if I get Cowl, do I NEED Devo's or Asi? Can I do okay without the extra lifesteal? If so, it frees your build up for more options.

These will be partially addressed in the rest of my comment.

Quick reference to my Hunter DPS calculation sheet...if / when you use Poisoned Star in the build, it doesn't have a way to interact with Artemis' passive damage boost. Instead, I already have Runeforged Hammer's situational 15% damage increase as a toggled option; just use that if you want to apply her passive.

some calcs

Build discussion

If I were to try for a build that provides all the things I would want, it would be a blending of some of these builds. Something like:

Leather Cowl -> Dominance -> Ninja Tabi -> Rage -> Deathbringer -> Poisoned Star -> upgrade to Hunter's Cowl -> replace Tabi w/ The Executioner.

The lifesteal leaves a bit to be desired, but the crit chance is also very reliable (85%), you get the Poisoned Star passive, mana sustain from Dom, and high pen from Dom + Exe (yes, there's some inefficiency w/ Dom + Exe as well, but I'll take it for the Exe AS and helping teammates deal more damage).

The numbers? Against 100 prots, 1060 DPS without steroid, 1306 with steroid. Against 200 prots (max Exe stacks), 776 DPS without steroid, 956 DPS with steroid. Not too shabby, and consistent against squishier and tankier enemies. But you have to be okay with less lifesteal potential. Hopefully the PS passive damage mitigation helps decrease your taken damage, acting in a sort of way as getting more lifesteal. Sort of.

Directions I didn't cover here: Fail-Not (pretty popular for Art builds), Eye Of The Jungle / Protector Of The Jungle. Maybe we can consider that later.

So some final comments based on your writeup underneath your spreadsheet pic.
  • On the "money" topic, stating that Gilded is 15% more expensive makes it sound bigger than I feel it is. Yes, it's 15% based on the builds you're comparing, but at the same time, that passive really starts adding up and it's honestly absolutely no problem for the rest of the build to be more expensive.

  • Penetration: Does in fact matter against tankier targets and objectives, especially if you get Exe and you have 2 other phys gods on your team attacking that FG, Titan, or front-line tank. I'm pretty sure your numbers are off somewhere or you're not fully calculating everything. Would be interesting to figure out if that's the case, or if I screwed up somewhere.

  • MP5: Dom is going to help ALL game for the MP5. You stay out doing things for a while, and then want to keep pushing after you finish a FG for example, you might find yourself pretty low. Dom will prevent you from running out.

  • I don't think mentioning stacking is important at all. Yes, only Zero's requires stacking, but I mean...you're laning early game with that. You're going to get your stacks. It matters absolutely nil for late-game consideration.

  • Wind Demon: Jakkyr's build has 100% crit chance. He will never NOT proc. Yours is 85% chance. You will almost never miss a proc, though yes, the game handles crit chance a bit weirdly and you might in fact find yourself not critting a couple times in a row.

  • Starter: When mentioning Cowl requiring the team, well that's part of the intangibles, right? If you had to back and you're trying to catch up to the team...or if your team died and you're getting chased, or if you got separated in a teamfight and you need to relocate...that MS is pretty nice. Otherwise, you should ALWAYS be near your teammates late-game, and that Cowl passive is going to help your entire team take down objectives due to the AS aura.

  • In the following chapter, you do touch upon some points I mentioned above that are good points. Frost/Witch keeping your build at 2.5 and having high AS being just nice in case you miss. Additional AS boost from Shogun's or Faf's ability. Good points.
Whew. Anyway, interesting read, cool of you to put this much time into it, would still like to clear up these calculations somehow. Thoughts?
1
HankCantRank | February 23, 2021 8:14pm
Hey Branmuffin! thanks for going through everything. I'm still going through all your keypoints but first few things that come to mind:
First of all sorry LOL one problem I have is not writing out what I mean badly. When I say penetration doesn't matter, it was supposed to be when comparing the three builds, you cannot outright say one build is better because it has more penetration, as the plot shows. You need a balance of both because it was very rarely that the difference in which build had more dps was due to protection (as in very rarely did the dps curves cross vs protection). I did not intend to make a statement of "don't build executioner" but more of don't pick which of these builds based off of their penetration.

Secondly, how do you get that + sign with the drop down? I need to learn how to do that lol

I defintely am a victim of being new to the game, since as you can see I left out alot thoughts about how progression should go. I'll look more into that whole attack speed vs power as well as mp5, progression, gold, etc.

So calculations: this is what I was working on ASAP. First of all, I did everything by hand first but now I am going in the training room and writing down the values. That being said you may need to check your spreadshoot:

xZero's endgame build did indeed have 295 power.
Jakkry's build likewise does indeed have 180 power. He has updated since then but I have yet to update my sheets to his current guide

As for my current math. It is a simple firerate formula: fire rate * [cDmg*cRate+ base damage *(1-cRate)]. The expanded table is below:I'll probably update my calculations part of my guide once we figure out what's going on lol


FINALLY: my probably controversial decision NOT to include the debuff from poisoned star in my calculations is:
    You have to at least land a single crit first on your target (different from Wind Demon because you can just active that passive on any target since it's a self buff).
    If you have multiple targets, your damage is no longer linear because you need to go target to target.
    Poisoned Star can be cleansed.
    If the target is already cc-dd (I don't need to explain how with Artemis' own kit not including your allies or relic), then the passive is redundant

I may end up just having a third measurement of xZero's endgame build + artemis passive because it is more likely, but again I'm really on the fence because how often is an enemy NOT cc-d.

P.S. I apologize for my formatting. still getting used to this
1
Branmuffin17 (348) | February 23, 2021 10:16pm
So let's see, firstly it's a spoiler.
This is a spoiler


Regarding the power numbers, Jakkyr's should be considered 230 for the sake of DPS. Sure, Ornate doesn't have actual power, but it has 60 basic attack damage. Physical gods translate 100% of power into their basic attack damage, so while that 60 won't add to ability scaling, it absolutely equals 230 for DPS.

So my "average" damage per attack calc is:

((IF crit % > 0 then N=crit %, if not N=0) * (IF you have DB, N=2.3, if not N=2) * [Basic Attack Damage]) + (([Basic Attack Damage] * (1 - crit %)) * [Situational Art passive 15% bonus damage])

The calc in my spreadsheet is a bit more complex, as in the end it also calculates Qin's passive based on the enemy health you input, and if you have Silver added and AS is technically over 2.5, it calculates and factors that in as well.

[Basic Attack Damage] = level damage per attack + item damage per attack (aka power equivalence from items)

Then you factor in the mitigation value based on the end enemy prots. I'm pretty confident in my calcs, but again, I could have screwed up somewhere.

The reason I DO calculate Art's passive (at least in some of the presented numbers) is because 1 hit out of several means calculating the passive will be closer to actual DPS than not. We're looking at max DPS values here, not situational things. And while you might change targets, that's not what you're TRYING to do. Hopefully you get to focus on one target, so I'm going based off of the intention, not a chaotic teamfight...again, we're calculating DPS, not total effectiveness based on intangibles. If we want to calculate intangibles, we should talk about effectiveness of PS's damage mitigations, or WD's movement giving you ability to chase/escape, etc. Straightforward is best here IMO.
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1
Devampi (105) | February 22, 2021 1:41am
love a numbers guy, however, I hope you plan on expanding this. because currently your numbers only matter if you reach 20-30+ min stage of the game.

progression wise it is a bit lacking and that is considered to have a lot more impact. A lot of builds depend more on their first items to even reach that stage of the game.
And this will show quite well why a lot of adcs start with Transcendence, Devourer's Gauntlet are pretty popular. The reason for this has to do with a Power-attackspeed balance (it's an old post but the graph didn't change that much.
And not only that also the reliance of ability usage to bump your dps up a bit.

I am not saying Asi is bad, however, the lack of power higher cost is being outshined by the much cheaper devourer's gauuntler. While Asi keeps you alive during a skirmish an opponent knowing what he is doing will be out pressuring you with his better wave clear and higher poke damage (and potential to burst through your Asi passive). Especially with Vengeful Assault early game the power from devos is highly likely to outshine Asi on a certain amount of stacks.

for pen, the same reason exists slightly. Late game with a crit build it doesn't matter as much (for a qin's build it is even more impactful) as crit is enhancing your auto attacks to do 'double damage' (modified by Spectral Armor and Deathbringer), but before the reliable crit percentage bruisers are a huge problem to deal with. That has always been the reason for the 3th 4th item pen spot.

Lastly, I am wondering for zeros endgame build did you factor in the increase from Artemis passive on the damage in the DPS?

I am pretty curious to see the remaining analysis on the build progression, factoring in the ability damage progression etc. (which comparing is going to be slightly harder as gold amount plays a part and Gilded Arrow slightly messes with it.
1
HankCantRank | February 22, 2021 10:44am
Hey thanks for the link on the power-attack speed balance. I've never actually seen this!

I do plan on expanding but I am waiting for more feedback to just do one big change. The biggest thing on my list is noting how mana hungry early game is and Devourer's Gauntlet vs Asi. The thing is I completely acknowledge that Asi costs significantly more than Devourer's for not the same power. But around level 8~10 is when I can get it and that's almost a 20% damage buff to your auto attack dps. That is also something that can't be ignored (ignoring if you use Vengeful Assault. Regardless I definitely need to look into this more.

Edit: Did some quick numbers. Late game with Ninja Tabi Asi will be better than devourer's as long as the target has <170 protection w/o Vengeful Assault, <230 protection with 2. Threshold goes up in Endgame. But this difference at most is 170dps in favor of Asi at low protection (less than 70), and 100 dps in favor of Dev in a high protection (more than 300). The interesting thing is at early game I think Asi is actually comfortably ahead of Devourer's Gauntlet, to where you actually need max stacks to justify the difference. example: at level 10 and dev at half stacks, asi will always do more auto attack dps. And the difference in power is only 28. for a maxed out Suppress The Insolent that difference in power is only 17 more damage before protections in which case Asi flat pen will make up for. I agree early game abilities make a huge chunk of our damage but we can't forget it is the base damage not the scaling that makes it so.
Therefore I would say that $150 difference is either preference of life steal, or if you believe that dps increase from Asi is worth it and there are few/no enemy gods with a final build of 170 protection.


As for penetration in say early/mid game.
https://imgur.com/a/l8FhFV0
Here's a plot of the 15 pen from Asi vs the 20% pen from Dominance. As you can see Asi actually pulls ahead in Pen up to 80 protection but even at the extremes we are looking at doing 3% less damage. Also I re-did my math and Silverbranch Bow should definitely be the 5th item. Idk if that changes anything.

So including the math for Poisoned Star is hard, was a lazy explanation. I should have been more expansive about it. So the reasons why I didn't include the math despite the obvious 15% damage boost being significant is:
    You have to at least land a single crit first on your target (different from
Wind Demon because you can just active that passive on any target since it's a self buff).
If you have multiple targets, your damage is no longer linear because you need to go target to target.
Poisoned Star can be cleansed.
If the target is already cc-dd (I don't need to explain how with Artemis' own kit not including your allies or relic), then the passive is redundant



Now for the "lategame" stats, if we just assume poisoned star should be treated as +15% damage always, well xZero's build goes from just slightly highest dps in comparison to noticeable higher. For the "Endgame" stats, all it does is bump the damage without Vengeful Assault to slightly higher but still significantly lower than the other 2 builds. And bump the damage with Vengeful assault to the same as Jakkyr's build.

Overall yes, I probably need to include progression. Still fairly new at the game and my only thought was Artemis the ADC lategame God, therefore only care about lategame. Hmm... maybe this is why my up/downvote ratio is like 50% right now LOL
2
Devampi (105) | February 23, 2021 1:57am
I already had a feeling it would have been a bit lazy on the star.

for the pen you have pretty much proven my point as while 3% might not be much the higher hp bruisers have they win the war of attrition to easily as that small amount of damage causes you to take more basics which is more time for them to kill you. Don't forget that the moment you finish Asi most of them are already around 100 prot and the 3th/4th pen slot some of them easily reach 150+ prot.

that is also why progression is hard to check the effects of as it differs in the matchups or what you're attacking
1
Branmuffin17 (348) | February 22, 2021 10:48am
Hey Hank, your guide writeup is long and complex and it's made me delay reading it...I'll do so today because I do really like the thought process. I'll comment soon.
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2
Jakkyr | February 21, 2021 7:42am
I LOVE the compareson part! It's super cool to see that stuff graphed out!
The only thing i'd comment on is that I changed up the build slightly for more sustain since I really don't like Artimes' bad mana sustain.
Other then that, great stuff!!
2
HankCantRank | February 21, 2021 10:50am
Hey Jakkyr! big fan. To be honest I was really worried one of you would show up really mad for comparing. I'll probably do an edit to your update sometime eventually. I also have some edits to my own build as well (asi vs devourer's or silverbranch before wind demon). So I'll probably do that all at once
2
Jakkyr | February 22, 2021 6:50am
I can't wait to see what you come up with!
1
Kriega1 (124) | February 21, 2021 8:00am
Start arrow if you care about mana sustain early
1
Jakkyr | February 21, 2021 8:17am
I'd disagree strongly personally, but if you manage to pull it off, more power to you.
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