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Guardian's Blessing
Shoes
Healing Potion
Mana Potion
Guardian's Blessing
Imperial Helmet
Healing Potion
Mana Potion
Gauntlet of Thebes can still be useful, since you'll easily stack it during late-game pushes and/or defending against phoenix sieges.A late Gauntlet of Thebes can still be useful, since you'll easily stack it during late-game pushes and/or defending against phoenix sieges.
If you don't feel comfortable, you can get Thebes first item and follow the build from there, but keep in mind that your already weak early game is going to suffer without MP5.
Shoes of Focus
Lotus Sickle
Heartward Amulet
Pridwen
Rod of Asclepius
Gauntlet of Thebes
Relic Dagger
Breastplate of Regrowth
Mantle of Discord
ALWAYS GET THESE, no matter the situation!
Shoes of Focus
Lotus Sickle
Breastplate of Valor
Midgardian Mail
Emperor's Armor
Spectral Armor
Contagion
Genji's Guard
Shogun's Kusari
Pestilence
Void Stone
Stone of Binding
Witchblade
Winged Blade
Gem of Isolation
Heavenly Wings
Magic Shell
Phantom Veil
Purification Beads
Cursed Ankh
Y
B
A
X
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Specialist's Blessing
Rod of Tahuti
Aphrodite
If you want, I can make a build with
At that point in the game, you don't even have enough power for Tahuti's passive to be useful.
Going Chronos' will provide you with more CDR, that equals more damage, more heals and more utility over a situational passive that isn't going to help you early game.
Also Tahuti has like 150 base power which is still pretty good to work with.
Let’s imagine a scenario where your team is dominating the match and you already built your core items. Is there any reason not to build Chronos?
If I made a mistake, it was to not include Breastplate as an option as well. I’ll revisit this build soon.
Let’s not mention the fact that the enemy team doesn’t know that
Pestilence doesn’t stack and move on. - You need
- Destroy the existence of
-
- Shield of Regrowth is a cool item, but it doesn't bring enough benefits for
- Today, I'd build
I’ll answer each of the points you presented.
- I cannot recommend a support build that lists
- Why the hate for
- Lotus and Asclepius aren’t competing for the same spot on the build. One provides physical protections + situational aura and the other boosts her heals, health and MS. They’re not comparable to each other.
- I agree that Shield of Regrowth might not be the best choice for the 6th slot (this one was a shot in the dark, tbh), but I think the situational 40% MS might be useful to escape if something goes wrong in the teamfights, or simple for quicker rotations.
- Tahuti is an item I can get behind, but only if you’re ahead. I consider Witchblade/Winged Blade too situational to list on an example build. And I’d never build
-
-
- Shield of Regrowth doesn't help you while the enemy is rushing you down, but
-
Shield of Regrowth can be fun/functional for Guan, Herc, and Chaac more than most others. It can be nice for Ama too. For Aphro, it's situational utility in the same vein as your reasoning for Asclep being an escape, with that focus being on health + a burst of MS. Regrowth also provides CDR, should you still be lacking enough in your build elsewhere.
I feel Winged is more situational than Regrowth, mainly due to the longer CD of the MS buff (30 seconds) compared to that of Regrowth (10 seconds). Yes, it counters slows where Regrowth doesn't, and the CCR is also helpful, but when building tanky, Aphro can now take some damage without just being blown up. If she's slowed, it's likely not the end of the world, unless you're caught out alone (and you should never be alone).
Witchblade is absolutely an item to consider for any Support role where the Support is building tanky, though.
Most tanks, in terms of base MS, won't have as much as Aphro, whether from common items (e.g. Regrowth, Asclep, etc.) or abilities (
Those tanks don't have a link via
And if the situation is dire due to a slow (not even hard CC), she has Beads/Aegis rolled into her ult.
Support breakdown:
- 1/2 = ult.
- Other 1/2 = 1/4 Kiss (link w/ MS, possible dmg boost), 1/8 Back Off (knockback), and 1/8 Love Birds (heal/sustain). Numbers applied without much reason, due to the silliness of the statement to which I'm responding.
(Also...the ult point was meant as last resort, and which I pointed out being possibly a bit silly as I mentioned it wasn't even hard CC)But Kriega, why are you even bothering and wasting your time? This is Aphro Support, which you already think is dumb.
Bran.
Relic is definitely extremely situational, and to be honest, I'd probably never build it on Aphro. I did see that EmilZy built it on Hel, but at his rank in ranked games, there's a bit more synergy and teamwork potential, which is more important for getting the most out of team-based relics.
I do think some consideration to
I continue to disagree with Lotus Crown as a core item. I'd tend toward
I also don't know if I'd consider
I'd also consider Asclep as either "utility" or defensive, rather than offensive, since the main draw is healing, with secondary function to MS (utility) and health (defense). The power isn't so much there for offensive use, as it is for increased healing from the scaling. Just my own categorization.
Finally, you can consider delaying a second point in
I'll give some insight on my thought process when making this build.
A "standard" build order for a support would be like this:
starter > shoes > defense against primary threat (almost always physical) > defense against secondary threat (almost always magical) > double defense item > situational > situational.
For the starter item, we can only consider
For boots, we have 3 main options:
For the first physical defense, I think about 4 items:
For the first magical defense, I think about 4 items:
Finally, for the double defense slot, I consider 3 items:
1. Cooldowns;
2. Protections;
3. Mana/MP5;
4. Power (her heals scale with power);
5. Health.
Now, for why I chose the items I did:
Starter:
Shoes: The only option that provides what
Physical defense:
This leaves us with
Honestly, any of these options would be viable, but I think
Lotus Crown, on the other hand, is already built in healing Guardians (
Magical defense:
That leaves us with
Double defense:
So, I chose
I'll change the categories of the items you mentioned.Build updated.
Your explanations and reasoning are solid and make sense. I'll add some further thought, not necessarily to convince you of something different, but just to give some additional consideration.
- Everything depends on item choices as you continue to build, but you might open up the standard build order a bit. You definitely covered standard build orders / starts against both physical (most common) and magical ADCs. In your general concept of starter > shoes > defense against primary threat (usually phys) > defense against secondary threat (usually mag), that last one there could be opened to something that DOES cover secondary, while also giving additional function to primary. What I'm talking about here is, of course, dependent on enemy makeup and what you'll need to counter. Without beating around the bush any more, I'm saying you can consider dual protections in that slot...as you already consider
Gauntlet of Thebes as an optional item, this can slot in that magical defense slot. Just keep that slot flexible. It can work the same if facing a magical ADC/higher magical threat.
- Acknowledged about Guardian being typically the better choice, and it's the one I'd choose 90% of the time. Mage's will put you behind $$$-wise, and was only a consideration based on the cooldown. But I have a better idea, combined with opening up the concept of an item a bit more.
- Both
Reinforced Shoes and 
Shoes of Focus can work as the shoes of choice here. I honestly do like Reinforced a lot. Keep in mind it provides dual protections (situationally), as does her passive, and it provides some health. And I'm mostly talking Reinforced as an option due to the next suggestion I'm going to add here.
- And here's where I think we often shoehorn the item into a specific category, but it doesn't exactly apply here.
Breastplate of Valor, we always say "selfish selfish selfish." It's typically true. It gives you higher utility due to ability use, but doesn't outwardly provide anything for teammates (like auras, or an enemy debuff, etc.). However, we're already talking about a god that's typically not suggested in the Support role (and has general kit issues, if you ask me, but that's a different topic). It's way, way less selfish when what you're doing with CDR is keeping your teammate's health up, allowing them to be more aggressive and take damage to also DEAL more damage, and allowing you to 
Kiss the enemy more for a good damage boost, more stuns, more aggression overall. Now, by 2nd main item (not including starter), you have 20% CDR instead of 10%. It will carry your CDR needs for a longer time, especially if the next item or two that you might want don't have any CDR.
- Speaking of shoehorning, I tend to do this with Lotus. I love the item for
Terra, 
Sylvanus, 
Hel, 
Chang'e, or 
Ra. I just don't like it as much for Aphro. But you make a point that I think I keep getting stuck on historical considerations. I don't remember when it was changed...maybe S3 or S4? But it used to have an activation limit, meaning it would only go for the 5 seconds every X seconds. That ticking heal wouldn't extend the time. So, yeah, good point on Lotus.
Void Stone is in fact functional, depending on how active and aggressive you're going to be. Keep in mind you're building tanky, so it's not like you can't wade into a fight a bit. And although the 
Kiss connection extends pretty far, you're often going to be more effective when you're in the midst, and able to get some 
Love Birds damage ticks off (not just for healing), and some 
Back Off! hits from both you and your soulmate. Likely you're not the only mage, since you're taking the place of what would normally be a Guardian, so you'll help their damage as well.
Anyway, those are my further thoughts. What do you think?So, let me answer each of your points.
- Building a double defense item on the third slot (instead of the fourth) is something I do when I'm playing in Solo (just like I suggested on my
- With this build path you suggested, I'm considering something like
BUT, if I had to answer it right here, right now, I'd probably say it isn't worth it. It will hurt Aphro's heals to the point they'll be negligible, and she won't be neither a tank nor a healer, taking away the purpose of playing her altogether.
- Remember we had this conversation the last time we talked about Lotus? The database was even outdated :p
- I still think
- Scaling/Early Itemization: Yes, your build path with
Shoes of Focus and Lotus does give you better scaling, and I didn't forget it, but also didn't discuss, so it's a good point. But when you mostly don't build a ton of power, the base heal is always going to be more important, and having a higher early CDR means more healing potential overall. The scaling is also going to be more negligible than base healing when you come across anti-heal, for the same reason that the base heal provides most of the healing. I just don't agree with you saying going this early path makes her healing negligible.
Love Birds is probably around level...4? Would that be about right? 49 scaling health is 26% of the base healing. Yes, that's significant. But is that a difference that really hurts your healing potential?
- Keep in mind also...what you're offering by playing Aphro in support, is a level of healing for you and one other that will be unmatched by pretty much anyone else. Even if something hurts your healing output (like lower scaling), EACH heal is going to be like a
Healing Potion infusion every 10-13 seconds (once you have 20% CDR)...it's an advantage you give to your teammate, and yourself. You can be absolutely tanky here with that direction, and still provide more sustain than most.
- MP5: I feel 40 MP5 is pretty good, especially when you have a decent added mana pool from BoV.
- Lotus: Dude...my memory sucks, and I talk about way too many things. I sort of remember. Is that good enough? I'll try to remember about Lotus from now on...lol.
- I get and generally agree with your points on why not for
Void Stone. However, I'd argue her damage will typically NOT be outside of 55 units, even if the range is 70, because the farther the person is from her, the more likely her slow birds are to miss, unless that person is stunned or rooted. You're better off getting in their face and loosing it from point blank range, IMO. And yes, you can proc 
Back Off!'s damage from your soulmate, but if your soulmate is on one person, and you're in the midst of a fight with another, you can score hits on both, and this is very possible in a bigger teamfight. A lot of Support Guardians do pick this up and it helps them and the mid mage. This would be the same thing in a general sense.
In the end, these are just things I would consider. You make great points, and in some cases I'm just being devil's advocate on alternatives...but being flexible on build can also be a good thing. In the end, it's your choice, and you're the more experienced Aphro player.Her total healing has 75% scaling. Also, Reinforced has 20 power, so you're comparing 20 to 85, not 10 to 85. A difference of 65 is 49 extra health from scaling. Factor in 25% anti-heal from Pest and it's 37 health. Or consider Divine or BBS, and it's ~30. Either way, let's say by the time you get both those items,
To me, scaling is nice, but it's not the most important draw, at least not in a Support build. If you're talking Solo or Mid, and you're building multiple power items and Tahuti, then the scaling can be huge.
Combined, I think Void is an option. Not core, maybe more situational, but definitely can be considered.
The nerf is also a good point, but I still feel will be a good item. For squishy enemies that build 0 protections, top magical protection at level 20 without outside influence is 48. The nerfed 15 protection reduction still drops their prots by 30%.
You're one to talk. :P
We could make that beautiful mother and son duo (