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Balancing Discussion: The Real Deal

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Forum » General Discussion » Balancing Discussion: The Real Deal 384 posts - page 30 of 39
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Mekali » August 27, 2014 11:56am | Report
I'm pretty sure Kali quitted.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by SoapSuds » August 27, 2014 5:53pm | Report
Subzero008 wrote:

One thing that makes me laugh at HiRez is how pathetic their balancing team is. And I can make a DIRECT comparison.

They nerfed Polynomicon because a bunch of idiots were screaming about it on the Reddit. So they nerfed it to the ground, making it worthless on EVERY champion. And some gods like Old Wa became worthless except for niche roles.

When Riot nerfed Lich Bane, which is pretty much Polynomicon, they nerfed it to 50% of AP from 75%, BUT unlike HiRez, THEY MADE ADJUSTMENTS TO THE GODS THAT WERE USING THE ITEM TO PREVENT THE CHAMPIONS WHO RELIED ON IT FROM BECOMING WORTHLESS! Also, Lich Bane is still used, albeit rarely, because its still good, since it HAS A TWO SECOND COOLDOWN.

This, right here, is proof that Smite's balance team has no idea what they're doing.

This 100%.

HiRez's balancing team is laughable at best. I mean, I really don't understand what logic, if any at all, they're using when it comes to balance. It seems like maybe every once in a while they'll do something right that'll make a positive impact on the game, but most of the times, the decisions they makes are out of ****in' no where and makes no damn sense.

Again, going off the example used here with Polynomicon (yes, I'm going to ***** about it again). A lot of people I saw that wanted a Poly nerf always used Ao Kuang and Scylla as examples as to why it should be nerfed. So, HiRez nerfed it, but did they actually make any changes to Ao Kuang or Scylla? Absolutely not. Why should they? It's a lot easier trying to balance a few gods by changing an item and ****ing everyone over than to try and balance individual gods/goddesses, right? Sure, a bit after, they changed Scylla to where she has a very small delay on her Crush when using it up close, but really, who cares?

HiRez's balancing team seems to have taken notes from the US government; instead of fixing the actual problem, just put the blame on something easier to deal with. It's easier and to the average and ignorant person, it actually looks like they're doing something.

Now, I'm not saying everyone who wanted a Poly nerf is like this, but those who constantly talked about Ao Kuang and Scylla did have points to how strong they are, but that's not Poly's fault. Like I've said many times before and Sub has already said here, with this huge damage nerf, they should have reduced the cool down back to 2 seconds, rather than leaving it at 4 seconds because, honestly, Poly is a fairly useless item now.

Going to end yet another Poly nerf complaint by me here and just close on saying this, along with the million of other examples, have shown that HiRez's balance team is either lazy or just plain idiotic, if not both.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Subzero008 » August 29, 2014 1:29pm | Report
Okay, I deleted my previous posts to show a more unified idea for a Thanatos Rework.

Thanatos, as he plays now, is an all-in kind of assassin, who relies on damaging and killing enemies in his path before they kill him. However, the problem is not only his lack of survivability, but the fact that his damage falls off late game. He goes in, ult-first, like Thor, but unlike Thor, he has no way out, aside from a puny move speed buff that doesn't compare to a true escape.

In this rework, I want to preserve that "all-in" kind of gameplay, while making it safer for Thanatos to go in a fight without worrying about virtually guaranteed death.

There are two distinct phases in Thanatos' gameplay - the part when a fight starts, and the part afterward. Like most assassins, Thanatos is strongest at the beginning of a fight, with his ability burst. However, Thanatos often sacrifices one or the other - leveling Death Scythe will give him great follow up on his Soul Reap, but at the same time, his initiation is weakened by the tiny CC duration. And leveling his Soul Reap limits your damage, and simultaneously, healing, making his post-initiation even more dangerous. And by the time he levels them both up, his damage has fallen off into mediocrity.

The crux of the kit will be Scent of Death, which alters Thanatos' abilities to give him different utility at the start or aftermath of a fight. In addition, his ultimate no longer executes enemies, but still stuns. This was to avoid the trap of forcing Thanatos to waste some function of the ultimate no matter how he used it, and also due to his pure execute ultimate being lackluster as an ultimate. So I reversed it.

Harvester of Souls: Enemies within a certain health threshold are revealed to Thanatos. Upon killing getting a kill or assist on an enemy, Thanatos is empowered by their death, healing him and reducing his cooldowns. (Note: This also reveals minions, monsters, towers, whatever.)

Threshold: 25% health.
Healing: 10% for minions and 20% for gods.
Cooldown Reduction: 1 second for minions and 10 seconds for gods.

The problem with his old passive was that it simply wasn't effective enough for his needs. Getting his cooldowns reduced by such a paltry amount wouldn't save him from being revenge-killed. The healing was great, but forced you to steal kills or make allies back off to use it, possibly screwing up a teamfight or letting someone get away. And even the health costs were quickly changed into insignificance. This way, Thanatos becomes one of the best cleanup crews in the game with a constant influx of healing, but it remains balanced due to the healing honestly not being that much (especially compared to Kali). The earlier vision bonus is just a plus.

Death Scythe: Thanatos flings his scythe at an enemy, dealing damage and bonus damage equal to a percent of the target's missing health, and healing Thanatos for a portion of the damage dealt.

Damage: 90/150/210/170/330 (+100% of your physical power)
Bonus Damage: 17/19/21/23/25% of the target's missing health.
Healing: 75% of damage dealt.
Cost: 10% of your maximum health.
Cooldown: 13 seconds.

Scent of Death bonus: Bonus damage is based of off the target's current health. Thanatos teleports to the enemy hit.

This skill can be used to both start and end a fight, granting it use no matter wherever the situation. The nonboosted form is a huge damage nuke and execute, especially with the 100% scalings (with slightly lowered base damage) on top of the bonus damage. The boosted form is a gap close, intended to give Thanatos a form of offensive mobility, while not changing his notable lack of defensive mobility. The doubled health costs are to keep his costs consequential.

The massive 100% damage nuke may seem overpowered, but you pay 10% of your health if you're trying to execute someone and miss, and a massive 25% of your health for a failed engage.

Scent of Death: PASSIVE: Grants a 10/15/20/25/30% move speed and a 15/20/25/30/35 penetration buff when moving to and attacking an enemy below the health threshold. This penetration bonus can go past the penetration cap.

ACTIVE: Thanatos empowers his next ability cast, modifying it and granting it additional effects. Thanatos also gains 10/15/20/25/30% move speed. This effect lasts 5 seconds.

Cost: 15% of your maximum health.
Cooldown: 15/14/13/12/11 seconds.

This, right here, is the crux of his entire kit. The passive changes are more of a quality-of-life buff, but the biggest change is the empowerment. In exchange for basically sacrificing more health for an ability cast, you get a different effect. I tried to obtain a balance between a stronger effect and a different effect, but not too far in either direction. There needed to be an upgrade part - you are sacrificing health for this - but at the same time, there needed to be a choice to the player, something that would make you not want to empower an ability at times.

The slow immunity has been removed, since there's sprint for that and all.

Keep in mind that Thanatos has to sac 25% of his health to do any sort of empowered cast.

Soul Reap: Thanatos swings his scythe, dealing damage and gaining a shield for each enemy hit, which is prioritized over health for casting. Thanatos moves at a reduced rate while swinging. Enemies hit are also slowed.

Damage: 80/130/180/230/280 (+80% of your physical power)
Slow: 30/35/40/45/50%
Duration: 1.5 seconds.
Shield: 30/40/50/60/70 (+20% of your physical power) (+10% of the target's maximum health)
Shield Bonus Limit: Unlimited targets; all enemies in AoE.
Shield Duration: 5 seconds.
Cost: 10% of your maximum health.
Cooldown: 15 seconds.

Scent of Death bonus: Enemies are silenced instead of slowed.

This is another trade off. A silence is better for initiation, while a slow might be more useful when trying to control movement in a teamfight. However, both have uses. The shield is there to give Thanatos some form of survivability, especially in a teamfight or an area clustered with multiple enemies.

Now for the big one.

Hovering Death: PASSIVE: Thanatos increases the health threshold by 5% per rank, up to 50% health at max rank.

ACTIVE: Thanatos flaps his wings and ascends for 5s, unable to be hit. While airborn, he moves unimpeded at twice the speed and can click to dive to his target location, dealing damage and bonus damage based on their missing health. Thanatos also gains 15% damage reduction for 5 seconds, along with 1.5 seconds of CC immunity, for each enemy god hit.

Damage: 100/150/200/250/300 (+50% of your physical power)
Bonus Damage: Up to 100 + 200% of your physical power
Cooldown: 110/100/90/80/70 seconds.
Cost: 20% of Thanatos' maximum health.

My reasoning is this. Thanatos already has a good gap closer now, which means he no longer needs an instant stun ult. Which means we can now focus on the chase/execute aspects, which I did.

One of the more irritating things about Thanatos is his ability to scavange essentially free kills, which is annoying if his team can carry him. With a higher cooldown, Thanatos has to be more careful about using his ultimate in the early game.

The damage reduction is there to help him execute priority targets and survive the aftermath, especially in a teamfight. Same for the CC immunity.

The alteration to his execute mechanic to give him some counterplay other than "plea for a miss." Building protections (along with the damage reduction of Aegis) will be more effective against him, but this is somewhat countered by the free penetration that Thanatos gets against low-health targets.

Overall, he's still a squishnugget, possibly even more so with the increase to his health costs. However, now he has the damage to remain relevant late game, and his early game destruction has been toned down somewhat. He also has a lot more survivability, but the core weakness of having no escape remains.

Early game, you will have more options to engage in a gank, in exchange for losing the stun ult. As teamfights start, you will be playing the same role of battlefield control and mild damager, but you'll have enough healing and shielding to survive.

Pros: Massive sustain, high ability damage, no mana costs, good offensive mobility, great cleanup potential.
Cons: Squishy without using damaging skills, dependent on health costs, no escape, poor duelist, poor sustained damage.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Pentargonite » August 29, 2014 1:56pm | Report
Since it's a long post and I'm tired I'll give 'feedback' on the passive.
The problem I have with it is that when the enemy is in the jungle, you basically know exactly where he is when he's clearing camps, which is kind of a free ward.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Subzero008 » August 29, 2014 3:14pm | Report
Ah, you're right. Then maybe just gods, then.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Swampmist1142 » August 29, 2014 3:25pm | Report
I thought you where saying the minion thing was only for heals, not the sight, which would be fine.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Subzero008 » August 29, 2014 3:38pm | Report
Yup. That's what I mean. Any other thoughts?


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Devampi » August 30, 2014 9:38am | Report
on his Scent of Death the movement speed of the passive doesn't stack with the active movement speed I hope.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Subzero008 » September 1, 2014 3:49am | Report
Since Jord seems to have abandoned this, I say we move on from Thanatos when I wake up.

Also, Nemesis and Aphrodite need to be on the list.


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Subzero008 » September 1, 2014 10:28pm | Report
Summary: Will put in here later. Now let's move on to Guan Yu!


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