Smash 4 General Disucssion

Personally, I find his Side Smash a bit lacking. It has fairly big ending lag and starting lag, and the projectile speed is slow. I find it best used for edgeguarding or to punish rolls on a good read. What you said about distance perfectly describes his kit IMO - your attacks are laggy, but all oriented around keeping range.

I'm pretty sure Mega Man is a medium character. I dunno, I thought Bowser Jr. was light until I learned he was heavy, so meh.

He feels very different imo. I'm not too sure about his tilts and his airs, but his special move have very noticeable differences. His normal special has HUGE lag on it. You can't just suck quickly now, you have to suck for at least 2 seconds, which leaves a lot of room to punish. His side special is also a charge move now as opposed to you just instantly swinging his hammer. His up special feels a lot better now. Don;t know what it is about it, but it feels like it's easier to combo with and repeatedly spam if you're that kind of player. I really haven't noticed anything different with his down special. I believe you can comb it with a throw, but I think that might've always been there.

No clue about his normal attacks though. Never played enough Kirby.

He also acts as a very funny counter to Little Mac. Stand on the edge of the stage, then when Little Mac comes charging towards you, suck him up, jump off the edge and spit him out. You can then float back up. Little Mac's recovery is so bad that he can't actually get back up on stage.

General consensus on Smashboards seems to be that he's not as good as he used to be, at least with his default set. His custom specials are supposed to be really good at fixing that.

I played a few games with Kirby, and here are my thoughts. Note that this is rather incomplete.

Normals:

His jab combo is extremely fast. Easy for people to escape the infinite jab quickly, but the initial jab speed is nuts. Range isn't bad, either.

His side tilt seems kind of pointless. Its damage is okay, its range is okay, but I don't see a role for it.

Up tilt is fast, can be used to combo like Sheik's up tilt, but has tiny range. Still, if you can get close, you can rack up damage just by spamming this.

Down tilt has the best range of all his tilts, and presents a tiny hitbox, and so can be used to avoid some grabs and projectiles and some attacks. It seems alright for combo=ing. More testing needed.

His Up and Down smashes are both really fast, but suffer from extremely bad range. You can't really punish most rolls with either of them, but their priority is good and they deal good damage and knockback.

His side smash has good range but has a tiny bit of windup. On the upside, it has low ending lag. It's his third-best finisher.

His dash attack, the spin kick thing, is actually really nice. It can punish rolls can deals decent damage, and I'm pretty sure it can lead to combos even at higher percents. But like most dash attacks, it's easily shielded and punished.

His aerials are awesome.

His up air is juggler-ness and is just really fast and annoying. Almost no lag.

His down air can give a minor spike, and also lets him approach from above with its decent range. Guys like Rob or Palutena still have even more range on their up smashes, so careful. Big end lag, some start lag.

His forward air is...eh. It's a good approach with a short hop, and does good damage, I support, but I kinda dislike it. Big ending lag if you hit the ground or midd.

His back air is amazing. No lag, good damage, great combo potential.


His rolls and dodges and air dodges seem alright. I don't see much of a difference to other fighters. I think his roll is longer than Palutena's, but slower.

His specials are tricky.

His side special is definitely his second-best kill move, but holy **** is this punishable and obvious. This one relies purely on reads, I think, so I'd use it sparingly, mostly as a punish.

His neutral special is, well, exactly how Buddha said. It's laggy on both ends, but it also shuts down a lot of characters' approaches.

His up special is really weird now. You can easily end a combo with it, which is weird as hell. It's damage is good, too, and if you get someone in range, it's really hard for them to air dodge the rising hit AND the falling hit, making it good for baiting air dodges, I suppose.

His down special is why Kirby's air game is unique. He can't be juggled, ever, and it's hard to out air duel him from below thanks to this. I think its ending lag has been reduced, but maybe that's just me. It's very niche, and certainly not something you want to use often, but if you can surprise someone with it, it deals obscene damage and is his best finisher.

Overall, his ground game is okay. It's not that great, mainly due to his lack of range. For approaches, you want to stick to the air, where you can juggle and combo people fairly easily due to your good priority, low lag on your combo moves, and multiple jumps. It's very hard to shield grab his back air due to the tiny ending lag letting you quickly spot dodge or roll out, so short hopping approaches are great on him.

His air game is all about damage racking, while his ground game is about killing. His specials are quite versatile overall. It's weird. I'm still not that oriented with him, so feel free to take what I said with a grain of salt.

Oh, right, his throws. Up Throw looks like a kill move at high percents, forward and back throws seem mediocre and pointless. I'm pretty sure his down throw is a combo starter.

I remember me playing against my brother (in the original Smash Bros) and just smashing all the buttons, now I feel so dumb when you guys talk with all these pro combo stuff :3

Penta lemme just give you every combo important

side smash

they're off the map

down smash/nair spike ko'd

gg you won smash

literally works 100% of the time 0 chance for counterplay no one can win trust me I'm ppmd

Correct me if I am wrong because I only played the new smash for a limited amount of time.

It still seems as though you are not getting high combos without a team mate or item.

Not to keep talking about Melee... but... you were able to pull out big combos and to me every since they took all that **** away from SSB starting with brawl the combos went downhill not uphill.

I mean I know I can do a 3 hit combo yea, but I still liked it when on Melee you could punish the **** out of people and stomp their brains in with a 8 hit combo.

I do not see that happening in the NEW SSB from the limited time I played with the help from a team mate or item.

I'll still play it but.... I just find it dumb that now I can only do smaller combos before they break out where in Melee it was just if your good enough to pull a big combo off then you deserve it.

One thing I do like is the Tag Team online....

What is the average combo now like 3 hits???

Lol GG trying to be pro at shulk knowing to switch the stance things perfectly while in battle without accidently hitting the button once more than you should.

From what I seen Lil Mac seems to be the nooblet character that noobs play because of his op ground KO, ect. Free get owned card.

I still wish chain grabbing was back :(

On a serious note the most ******ed thing is that they can steal your edge simply by falling into it, like that took away important edge guarding...

now anyone can just recover from the cliff... so dumb...

Well now edge guarding isn't as simple as it used to be.

And everyone should be able to recover. The burden should be placed on the person preventing recovery, not the person trying to get back onto the stage. That's just common sense imo. I prefer seeing people who REALLY know how to punish an opponent, rather than them sitting on the side of the ledge and watching characters with horrific recovery skills just lose based off a single lucky side smash.

And Lil Mac isn't that good, he's like I said with Falcon but even more extreme: he's strong in combat, but exceptionally weak to people with disjointed hitboxes, with solid projectile game, or anyone who can get him off stage in a simple manner. His recovery is pretty piss poor, and not even SS4's improved recovery game can mitigate how bad his stuff is.

I thought I'd post some stuff about Palutena, because she's my fav.

Side taunt is to be spammed after every/all victory/kill.



Overall, her smash attacks all have massive lag, but massive power, easily KO-ing heavy characters at around 100 percent, and light characters at 70, even. Your goal is to use the range and wind they give you to outdistance opponents, and to hit them out of range, but this requires good reflexes and prediction.



Her tilts are more like mind games and anti-jukes. Like her smashes, they have big ending lag and are long ranged. But unlike the smashes, they don't KO, but you aren't entirely vulnerable to a roll or dodge or shield. They are also faster to execute.

Her Jab combo is really nice. The first hit is really quick, and the jab combo is okay, but the final hit of the combo has, weirdly enough, way more range than most jabs. It's tied for her fastest attack, and can rack up damage pretty well, and can be used to play more mind games.

Her dash attack is amazing - it's comparable to Little Mac's, and that's saying a lot. It has great priority, hits extremely quickly, has good range, and knocks enemies almost straight up, as well. But the best part is how it literally ignores projectiles. Every single projectile, from Falco's lasers to Lucario's fully charged Aura Sphere, is canceled by the dash attack, without interrupting it. It's awesome.



Overall, down throw down throw down throw. My god, down throw.



Her aerials are her biggest combo fodder. They're meant to be combined with her down throw, which can chain into literally any other aerial. You use your aerials to kill, to approach, to damage, etc, and they're really damn good at it.



Palutena's specials are all extremely defensive, designed to help you harass and stay safe while doing it.



Overall, Palutena is an very interesting character. She has the smash attacks of a heavy character, the aerials and throws of a air-based lightweight, and extremely defensive tilts and specials, wrapped up in a medium character.

She isn't very combo-reliant, but move reliant - depending on using the right move at the right time, as well as wearing down the opponent until they make a mistake and you KO them with a massive smash. She's an incredibly versatile goddess who can go well in the air, the ground, who can kill in all directions, and who can also play offensively as well as defensively.

So yeah.

There's a new pro mode called For Glory 1v1. No items, no gimmicks, just Final Destination in a 2 stock game. IT's freaking awesome.

Also, don't forget that you can still steal edges now. Because once you're thrown off the edge by someone else grabbing onto it, you can literally do the exact same thing. They just removed the stupid edgehog.

Little Mac is weird. Knock him off even once, or even throw him, and he's practically dead. But on the ground, he's the most ridiculous character in the game. I still don't know what to think about him, other than him being really, really freaking strong.

(The one thing about him that I feel is cheap is his OHKO punch.)