Awilix Info

She definitely has counterplay, not to much but still some. Unlike some other assassin.

1. CC immunity is your friend.
Not only dose CC immunity prevent you from being knocked, put it prevents you from being pulled by her ultimate. When you see somebody in the air as Awilix, you get excited and you might press 4 without really thinking about it. So you can activate Purification Beads right after you leap and she might ult you, wasting her ultimate and allowing you to escape. Even if she didn't fall for it, you still leaped away to safety. I know that you won't have Purification Beads up all the time, but it still a good back-up plan if all else fails.

2."Don't have a leap"
You typed it not me. Most assassin's **** on gods that only have a dash or a movement speed buff as an escape and can have trouble against gods with a leap. For Awilix it the opposite. You don't leave the ground = no ultimate for her. Some gods will struggle against her, some will shut her down completely. It one of the founding factures of competitive play: counter-picking and bad/good match-ups.

And before you say it, yes I know that she has her Summon Suko leap. Two things about that. First: one of the best ways to beat an assassin is to bait out there leap and then use yours, as they will have no way to follow you. She use the leap for initiation=he mobility is severely crippled.
Secondly: Her leap is quite slow. Not just the leap speed itself, but the fact that she has to actually get on Suko before she can actually leap. Giving you a bit of a head start.

3. Don't let her get behind you.
Like Loki whenever you are fighting her, always keep an eye on her. If she can't get behind you, she has no CC. And unlike Loki she doesn't have a ******** ultimate that instantly puts her behind you and stuns.

4. Moonlight Charge has a very slow projectile speed, use it to your advantage. If she is chasing you, juke like crazy and she will have a rough time knocking you up.

I do agreed that I'm a bit worried that she might turn out too strong, I guess only time will tell. Can't wait to try her out against actually players none the less!

Maybe people's main rant about her panther is that she'll be able to go twice the distance she would go in 8 seconds and triple in 12? I can see why that wouldn't be exactly fair seeing as she can let's say: disengage a team fight when the odds are even and go for an objective(yeah not exactly special, but significantly faster), secure herself a long distance from her enemies if low health, go from getting solo lane a kill to getting mid lane a kill to getting duo a kill or 2 in a matter of seconds (or maybe a little over a minute depending resistance or might not get a kill in one or two lanes), and obviously the one that's gonna piss most people off, the fact that with her there's probably way more kills secured than most assassins because of the speed buff and the leap at the end. Honestly, I'm not complaining much since, with her, my jungler won't be able to say "but I was at the other side of the map" excuse as often.

1. CC immunity is EVERYONE's friend. Beads isn't counterplay, it's there to help you if you **** up, because in about 15 seconds the enemy will have his CC up again. It doesn't "counter" Serqet any more than it "counters" Loki or "counters" Freya or Ymir, or Poseidon, or Agni, or Chang'e...

2. Actually, most assassins don't care who has what kind of escape. I main jungle, or used to, and every single assassin either waits for the gankee to use their escape, or just chase with their own gap closer. Escaping an assassin has nothing to do with escapes, but your CC and your distance from tower, and damage. If you can scare off the assassin or stun lock him enough to run, you win. If you don't, you die. It's literally that simple. This isn't a complicated game, don't pretend it is.



3. Oh, wait, she can get behind you anyway. Even if you turn around, due to how the ability works.

4. Slow projectile speed doesn't matter when everyone gets a -50% speed debuff in combat and when everyone can fire abilities from point blank range. It's just like Thanatos' Scythe: realistically, it's not a difficult skillshot to hit. It's more about how you can survive his burst or CC lock him to run, rather than whether you can juke or bait or whatever.

Quick Question Sub: What is your definition of "counterplay"?
For me its when you acknowledge that your enemies strength and attempt to minimize that strength in some way.



I agreed with you that calling Beads "Counterplay" is a bit strong, but like I said in my comment It's more of a plan B rather then plan A:


And I was referring to CC immunity in general in my post, I just used beads in my example because its not specific to a certain god. If you have some for of CC immunity it's can be worth using it to make sure that she can't knock you up. You could also buy Magi's Blessing, again wont help you in 100% of the cases. Still, better then noting.



I don't really understand you here. You are correct that your distance from a tower is a very important factor when you get ganked and that sometimes it is better to stay and fight in an attempt to scare of the assassin with your damage or CC.

But escapes play no part in ganks? What? Am I missing something here? Last time I checked escapes allows you to travel a large distance in a sort amount of time. Let's say Kali leaps at me and is about to kill me, so I leap/ Flutter/ Atlas of the Yellow River away, she can still catch up to me by simply walking? But if I can successfully stun her, there is no way she will ever catch me?

Are you talking about when an assassin manages to get right next to you without using a gap closer? If that's the case, see the last paragraph of this comment

When did I say that Smite was a complicated game? Are you saying that Smite is less complicated then other MOBA's, because I totally agreed with that if that's what you where saying. That doesn't mean that the game doesn't have any for of depth or number crunching to it. If Smite had no complexity or depth or counter play or itemizing or match-ups:

Then why the **** is there a competitive scene?



Looking at this rant post, I seems to be more aimed towards Smite rather then my comment. So I'm just going to move on.
You ok buddy? That was a lot of things you let out. Need like a glass of water or something?



Note: I have not played against a Awilix yet, so I might be underestimating the speed of her flip.
So can you. You see her flip over you, turn around. Its not that hard. She doesn't instantly appear behind you and Moonlight Charge isn't instant, as long as you have fast reflexes I don't think she will be able to wombo-combo you too often.



But unlike Death Sythe Moonlight Charge has to hit an enemy in the back in order to be effective, I doubt any Awilix will use there 3 when right in your face. Unless she desperately needs more damage.

About the jukeing part I was talking more in a scenario where you are being chased by her AKA you aren't attacking so that you don't get slowed by the attacking movement speed penalty.

Honestly if an assassin ganks you and manages to get that far up your *** without you noticing them, its your own fault for not paying attention.

Call of Duty has a competitive scene too, and it's about as deep as a kiddie pool. I have played both as and against Awilix and I can say with confidence that she is not very good.

Escapes play little role in ganks because everyone has one. You use an escape to close a gap, they'll use theirs to widen it. It's literally that simple, and popping one does pretty much nothing. It doesn't do anything except forcing the enemy to pop their own escape/CC, or to punish them for using it earlier.

Like I said earlier, gankings are like a race. You pop your CC, they pop their escape to run away, you pop your escape to chase, they pop their CC to run away, you chase them, they run to tower...every gank goes like that, unless you've oneshot them with the initial burst or they used their escape/CC and now have to endure you being in melee range for a bit.

Why is there a competitive scene? There's a competitive Yu-Gi-Oh scene, too, and that game is incredibly luck-based. Just because Smite doesn't have much depth doesn't mean there isn't a competitive scene, and looking at tournament clips, you can see that.

The problem isn't the speed of her flip; it's how Awilix will either be behind someone during a gank, or just run at them, wait for them to run, and pop her knockup. I misunderstood her flip, it's used as a gap closer and nothing else. But the core argument of my statement is the same: She's about as complicated as any other "run at them, pop abilities and gap closers" assassin. Just like Arachne, Loki, Ne Zha, Serqet, etc.

(In short, your choices are to fight, or turn around and get wombo'd. And before you say that fighting is an option, it'll be about as much of an option as if it were Serqet ganking, or Mercury ganking, or Kali ganking. Yes, you can fight, but 99% of the time it'll not be a fight in your favor. Maybe you used your ult or other abilities, maybe you're low on health or mana, or maybe the enemy jungler is fed. As a jungle main, I can tell you that you ALWAYS go for unfair fights as a jungler - or you'll ALWAYS lose fights with the natural 1-3 level gap.)

I saw the thing. It isn't a slow projectile. It's about as fast as Apollo's So Beautiful or Neith's Spirit Arrow, neither of which are hard to hit.

And no Awilix is going to use the panther without the knockup. Instead, the idea is to force the enemy to turn around, by making them run away, and then chase with the knockup and pull. Either you run away while fighting, therefore incurring a 50% move speed penalty + the move speed penalty for backpedaling, or you can run and get CC'd for instant death. For the running away part, you can't juke it, because as I said, the projectile speed is actually pretty fast.

Counterplay? Counterplay is something a player can do to counter something specific. Some kind of unique pattern, movement, playstyle, that can stop something each time every time, because it's counterPLAY, not counterITEM. Something that doesn't depend on you being ahead or at an advantage (like fighting back when fed).

For example, in League, juking is counterplay. Reserving hard CC for interruption is counterplay. Predicting movement and attacks is counterplay. Timing certain things is counterplay. Even playing cautious is a form a counterplay.

This is why beads isn't counterplay: It's something to use AFTER you fail to juke, avoid, predict, or otherwise mitigate CC. And there is a LOT of undodgeable CC in Smite.

That's why I say Smite has practically no counterplay: You can't juke much. Every god has some form of way of guaranteeing damage and CC. From Mercury's undodgeable and unrunable ult, to Serqet's billion gap closers and unmissable ult, to every single mage's unavoidable damage (with a few exceptions), to the undodgable blink initiation that every tank does nowadays, etc.

Or in Dawngate. I know you play the game, so I'll put an example.

Freia has multiple gap closers, an AoE fear, and good burst and sustained damage, along with a ton of targeted abilities, making juking impossible. What can you do to counter her?

You can use bushes to stall her autolock abilities.

You can bait/wait for her to use a particular double cast and punishing her for it. If she double casts her damage, you can CC her or use a gap closer to run. If she double casts for her stun, same. If she double casts her gap closer, she doesn't deal that much damage without ulting, and can't interrupt you, so you can even fight back.

You can rely reliably on your lane partner.

You can ward.

If you have hard CC, use it!

You can even stall her out with sustain/lifesteal/tankiness, if she's ganking you solo, as Freya's Rage is unsuited for medium engagements. (Long and short, on the other hand, let you build it up again or use it all at once, respectively.)

Etc.

Now, why doesn't this apply to Smite?

Bushes don't exist.

Everyone in Smite has the same one-escape-one-hard-CC moveset, and the ones that don't are ridiculous and lack even more counterplay. You can't wait for Mercury to dash and then punish him for a lack of damage. You can't wait for Bakasura to pop Butcher Blades and run away, when he has an insane 30% move speed buff AND a slow AND a gap closer AND probably Fatalis. All you can do is pop your own CC and escape, just as they pop theirs, and assassins have more gap closers to compensate for not being close to tower.

Not everyone has a lane partner in Smite, and supports ALL have one giant CC that they use at once, and maybe one support ability. While Renzo could harass and then ult or shield you from a gank, if someone like Ymir goes in, it's going to take quite a while for him to have his CC up, and even then, the enemy jungler has an item advantage, and the element of surprise, as well as distance, AND you not having an ability up because of the push push push meta. Also, there's a huge chance your support would die instead, because tanks are insanely squishy earlier. A common tactic is to switch targets if the tank is low enough, get a free kill, and come back later, but fed. Seriously, everyone agrees that supports can't do much compared to other gods.

Warding CAN work, but most junglers have a way around it. Batz' ult is so huge he can hit you even if you run away as soon as you see him. Mercury and Serqet can catch up to you stupidly fast AND reposition you AND have ranged CC (of a sort, for Merc). Bakasura has a massive move speed buff, also making him insanely fast. Bastet's cats don't care about towers, early game at least, Fenrir and Ne Zha both have multiple gap closers that also deal a good chunk of damage and/or reposition. Thor and Thanatos can literally gank outside of ward range. Etc. If wards were that good, then junglers wouldn't be a thing, and most of the time, warding isn't a huge factor, especially with the map design letting junglers appear literally behind the gank target, AND the push meta.

If you're wondering how junglers in other MOBAs can still gank with wards around and a meta suited better for caution, each game handles it differently. In Dawngate, you have three jungle paths and only two wards, simple as that. In League, some assassins can cirvumvent wards (Amummu through a wall, or Fiddles ult), some assassins have insane mobility to get into position (Lee Sin, maybe Rek'Sai), and some assassins are still vulnerable to wards but substitute with raw damage or CC (Akali, Warwick). Warding is still effective, however, due to NO JUNGLER HAVING EVERYTHING IN ONE KIT LIKE MERCURY OR SERQET DOES.

Hard CC isn't quite effective anymore due to the whole CC-escape chain I mentioned a few billion times. The only difference is very long CC, the kind that's used in an ultimate - something small like an Agni stun doesn't deter most ganks - it's the dash that deters ganks. Also, the hundreds of CC immune ultimates AND the lack of channeled abilities also reduce the effectiveness of hard CC. (In League, a lot of champions have channeled abilities, like Warwick ult, Fiddles' Drain, or something that gives you a short window of time to act that can be stopped, like Fiora's steroid.

Stalling out a fight with sustain or lifesteal or tankiness is pointless due to counterbuilding not being a thing, how EVERYONE DIES INSANELY FAST.

Lastly. Juking.

Juking is THE most important factor in a MOBA. Juking, above all else, is why junglers in other MOBAs have counterplay. You can avoid gap closers, damage nukes, debuffs, etc, by careful juking and prediction and timing.

You can avoid Lee Sin Qs, or Desecrator's root. You can avoid Kaghen's hook or outrange Udyr. And what can't be avoided easily or at all, can be hard countered by another one of the many strategies.

In Smite, Mercury comes from behind at record speeds, grabs you, throws you against a wall, and while in midair, unleashes his massive burst damage, before chasing you with an infinite gap close that ALSO hard CCs AND deals huge damage. Good luck fighting back against the best duelist in the game AFTER he bursts you.

In Smite, Thor hits you from literally no warning, stunning you and nuking you, then stuns you again and nukes you again.

In Smite, Serqet grabs you, throws you back like Mercury, and then while you're still being knocked back, hits you with a 1.65 second hard CC, and then inflicts massive burst damage AND true damage all the while, and that's not getting into her three ****ing gap closers.

In Smite, Loki inflicts his entire burst damage with no warning, and also has a teleport stunning nuke to finish you off, and YOU CANT SEE HIM AT ALL. He can slip through wards, come at you in any direction, and kill you instantly - literally.

In Smite, there isn't much counterplay at all.

No offense, but if you truly feel you are correct about those two statements, you probably are not good enough at Smite to be arguing about Smite.

Guys. Her ult works with knockups too. She has a knockup by the way. :P

blablabla meme of you should not have said that.


if you are going to out right say some one is bad atleast explain why.

saying no offense doesn't mean it doesn't sound offensive.


this is how you sound if i were to say stuff like you.
you should not be allowed to argue about smite because you give up on your arguments after 2 comments.

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seriously, this week you called sub bad and accused me of having a god complex... yeah no dont send the hounds or anything... it's not like you said that you were going to mock a comment like sub did once... now THAT would call for the hounds.........