Awilix Info

Counterplay? Counterplay is something a player can do to counter something specific. Some kind of unique pattern, movement, playstyle, that can stop something each time every time, because it's counterPLAY, not counterITEM. Something that doesn't depend on you being ahead or at an advantage (like fighting back when fed).

For example, in League, juking is counterplay. Reserving hard CC for interruption is counterplay. Predicting movement and attacks is counterplay. Timing certain things is counterplay. Even playing cautious is a form a counterplay.

This is why beads isn't counterplay: It's something to use AFTER you fail to juke, avoid, predict, or otherwise mitigate CC. And there is a LOT of undodgeable CC in Smite.

That's why I say Smite has practically no counterplay: You can't juke much. Every god has some form of way of guaranteeing damage and CC. From Mercury's undodgeable and unrunable ult, to Serqet's billion gap closers and unmissable ult, to every single mage's unavoidable damage (with a few exceptions), to the undodgable blink initiation that every tank does nowadays, etc.

Or in Dawngate. I know you play the game, so I'll put an example.

Freia has multiple gap closers, an AoE fear, and good burst and sustained damage, along with a ton of targeted abilities, making juking impossible. What can you do to counter her?

You can use bushes to stall her autolock abilities.

You can bait/wait for her to use a particular double cast and punishing her for it. If she double casts her damage, you can CC her or use a gap closer to run. If she double casts for her stun, same. If she double casts her gap closer, she doesn't deal that much damage without ulting, and can't interrupt you, so you can even fight back.

You can rely reliably on your lane partner.

You can ward.

If you have hard CC, use it!

You can even stall her out with sustain/lifesteal/tankiness, if she's ganking you solo, as Freya's Rage is unsuited for medium engagements. (Long and short, on the other hand, let you build it up again or use it all at once, respectively.)

Etc.

Now, why doesn't this apply to Smite?

Bushes don't exist.

Everyone in Smite has the same one-escape-one-hard-CC moveset, and the ones that don't are ridiculous and lack even more counterplay. You can't wait for Mercury to dash and then punish him for a lack of damage. You can't wait for Bakasura to pop Butcher Blades and run away, when he has an insane 30% move speed buff AND a slow AND a gap closer AND probably Fatalis. All you can do is pop your own CC and escape, just as they pop theirs, and assassins have more gap closers to compensate for not being close to tower.

Not everyone has a lane partner in Smite, and supports ALL have one giant CC that they use at once, and maybe one support ability. While Renzo could harass and then ult or shield you from a gank, if someone like Ymir goes in, it's going to take quite a while for him to have his CC up, and even then, the enemy jungler has an item advantage, and the element of surprise, as well as distance, AND you not having an ability up because of the push push push meta. Also, there's a huge chance your support would die instead, because tanks are insanely squishy earlier. A common tactic is to switch targets if the tank is low enough, get a free kill, and come back later, but fed. Seriously, everyone agrees that supports can't do much compared to other gods.

Warding CAN work, but most junglers have a way around it. Batz' ult is so huge he can hit you even if you run away as soon as you see him. Mercury and Serqet can catch up to you stupidly fast AND reposition you AND have ranged CC (of a sort, for Merc). Bakasura has a massive move speed buff, also making him insanely fast. Bastet's cats don't care about towers, early game at least, Fenrir and Ne Zha both have multiple gap closers that also deal a good chunk of damage and/or reposition. Thor and Thanatos can literally gank outside of ward range. Etc. If wards were that good, then junglers wouldn't be a thing, and most of the time, warding isn't a huge factor, especially with the map design letting junglers appear literally behind the gank target, AND the push meta.

If you're wondering how junglers in other MOBAs can still gank with wards around and a meta suited better for caution, each game handles it differently. In Dawngate, you have three jungle paths and only two wards, simple as that. In League, some assassins can cirvumvent wards (Amummu through a wall, or Fiddles ult), some assassins have insane mobility to get into position (Lee Sin, maybe Rek'Sai), and some assassins are still vulnerable to wards but substitute with raw damage or CC (Akali, Warwick). Warding is still effective, however, due to NO JUNGLER HAVING EVERYTHING IN ONE KIT LIKE MERCURY OR SERQET DOES.

Hard CC isn't quite effective anymore due to the whole CC-escape chain I mentioned a few billion times. The only difference is very long CC, the kind that's used in an ultimate - something small like an Agni stun doesn't deter most ganks - it's the dash that deters ganks. Also, the hundreds of CC immune ultimates AND the lack of channeled abilities also reduce the effectiveness of hard CC. (In League, a lot of champions have channeled abilities, like Warwick ult, Fiddles' Drain, or something that gives you a short window of time to act that can be stopped, like Fiora's steroid.

Stalling out a fight with sustain or lifesteal or tankiness is pointless due to counterbuilding not being a thing, how EVERYONE DIES INSANELY FAST.

Lastly. Juking.

Juking is THE most important factor in a MOBA. Juking, above all else, is why junglers in other MOBAs have counterplay. You can avoid gap closers, damage nukes, debuffs, etc, by careful juking and prediction and timing.

You can avoid Lee Sin Qs, or Desecrator's root. You can avoid Kaghen's hook or outrange Udyr. And what can't be avoided easily or at all, can be hard countered by another one of the many strategies.

In Smite, Mercury comes from behind at record speeds, grabs you, throws you against a wall, and while in midair, unleashes his massive burst damage, before chasing you with an infinite gap close that ALSO hard CCs AND deals huge damage. Good luck fighting back against the best duelist in the game AFTER he bursts you.

In Smite, Thor hits you from literally no warning, stunning you and nuking you, then stuns you again and nukes you again.

In Smite, Serqet grabs you, throws you back like Mercury, and then while you're still being knocked back, hits you with a 1.65 second hard CC, and then inflicts massive burst damage AND true damage all the while, and that's not getting into her three ****ing gap closers.

In Smite, Loki inflicts his entire burst damage with no warning, and also has a teleport stunning nuke to finish you off, and YOU CANT SEE HIM AT ALL. He can slip through wards, come at you in any direction, and kill you instantly - literally.

In Smite, there isn't much counterplay at all.

No offense, but if you truly feel you are correct about those two statements, you probably are not good enough at Smite to be arguing about Smite.

Guys. Her ult works with knockups too. She has a knockup by the way. :P

blablabla meme of you should not have said that.


if you are going to out right say some one is bad atleast explain why.

saying no offense doesn't mean it doesn't sound offensive.


this is how you sound if i were to say stuff like you.
you should not be allowed to argue about smite because you give up on your arguments after 2 comments.

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seriously, this week you called sub bad and accused me of having a god complex... yeah no dont send the hounds or anything... it's not like you said that you were going to mock a comment like sub did once... now THAT would call for the hounds.........

Ahh.
I see what you mean now.

I don't really have any thing to add, you answered all my questions. There is no counter argument I can make without backtracking.

So I guess all that is left is to tip my hat and politely see myself out.
K THX BYE.

It's not that I CAN'T argue about Smite, it's that I choose to stay a little passive and NOT argue.

There's a difference between not understanding the game and then trying to argue about it, then choosing not to argue about it because you are trying to be quiet.

I commend you for the way you handled this discussion, considering so many have trouble doing so. +rep and keep being a good sport!

Why isn't she very good?

Personally I don't find Awilix broken or anything. I've just been doing well with her since people don't really know how she works. I think that she has an ideal, unique kit that is balanced for the most part.

Awilix does have some counters. I'd say that Awilix' strafe difficulty on Suku was meant to do bad against Bacchus' Intoxicate specifically. Also I've noticed cripples are extremely hard to deal with while playing with her.

Something to continue on the discussion - Ganks aren't only a one way thing. Nor is there ever one approach. You can gank having the mindset of not just getting a kill but putting pressure on the enemy so your ally has an better time in lane. It also helps get your team ahead by denying farm and buffs.

*rolls eyes*

Slight exaggeration.

Thor is said to be countered by "looking up." Now, tell me, how often you can "look up" at a time? A second? Two seconds?

How long before the enemy laner sees you looking away and takes advantage of it? How long before you look again? You have a lane to keep, after all. Ten seconds? Fifteen seconds? Can you remember to keep looking up every fifteen seconds over and over and over for fifteen minutes?

And how long does it take Thor to ult and hit you? Three? Four? Five?

As a Thor main, I can tell you that in even higher levels of play, people don't look up. They don't look up because it isn't very effective, because it makes you easy to punish, isn't very effective at actually finding Thor, and is a huge distraction and detriment - in a game with Blink Gebs, imagine turning around to look to the side for even a second.

Yes, technically, there is warning, but the warning it so incredibly hard to spot and dangerous to check that it's worthless. No one looks up because it isn't effective. Instead, people ward unusual spots, or just try to avoid Thor's ****.

As for Loki, well, you can't see him, and can't ward him. Yes, you can here him, but unless you're Apollo, no one if going to pop CC on an invisible Loki, just because he's somewhere in the area, any more than a cop would shoot into random houses and bushes when a criminal is in the area. So your best bet is to hit him as soon as he pops out, which means Loki has basically already delivered his whole damage. Which means pure death.

So yeah, they both technically have warning, it's just that they might as well have no warning.

Dunno where you live, but that last metaphor could actually apply pretty often.

But that's neither here nor there >.>