Removed for Personal Reasons

You're fine, maybe we can learn to be a little lighter in some of our comments as well. As long as we're learning and improving things are okay =)

SMITEFire has been striving for better quality for years now. We want to be able to promote high quality builds and guides. At the same time, we are also open to off-meta and "for fun" guides, as long as they clearly indicate as such.

If the build is in fact off-meta or not regularly viable (e.g. ADC Thoth w/ attack speed), and doesn't state this (perhaps because the person maybe even feels it's completely viable), we also have, directly within the system, the capability and the right to vote the way we see fit.

The regular members of SMITEFire that have invested a good amount of personal time into the site have also strived to educate people, whether it's why a build isn't optimal, or if a mechanic isn't understood, etc. I feel we do a pretty good job of that, especially in not just providing basic feedback such as build adjustment, but explaining why as well.

The biggest problem that unfolds from the above is what Devampi has described, that some people take initial criticism very, very personally. As I've said to you in PMs, I understand that it can be frustrating if you've put in work / effort and the first response you get is that something is wrong with your build and it should be fixed, especially if you really believe in your build. At the same time, I feel some of the criticism of some of the item choices have been absolutely valid, e.g. Rod of Asclepius on Ares with the admitted concept "for speed." There was even effort to explain WHY this wasn't an optimal choice, that there's a movement speed soft cap that comes into play with diminishing returns (which you admittedly didn't understand or realize was a thing)...this is besides the general component that Asclep isn't a great choice for Ares because he doesn't have significant healing/group healing in his kit, which is another valid criticism of the choice.

You talk about being "open-minded." Again, we can absolutely do that, when it comes to admitted off-meta builds. If the build is not stating as such, and if the creator checks that they want feedback, they are subject to response. Even if they don't check that they want feedback, it's still an open forum and people are free to comment; it just becomes a situation that our feedback may or may not be considered.

With regard to "trying" a build, when you've played this game long enough and you've learned the mechanics and calculations and you intimately understand how the items work in given situations, I just don't feel we need to try it out to have the right to give feedback. I can tell you, if I build 5 legitimate Support items that work well for Ares, and tack on Rod of Asclepius at the end:

• The 5 other (non-Asclep) items will still allow me to tank damage well
• I will get slight benefit from additional MS provided by Asclep
• The health and power from Asclep will still be helpful
• The aura Asclep provides will still give Ares added power based on his passive
• I am unlikely to get much benefit from the healing aura

Based on that last point, I can tell you that I would much rather prefer an item that is going to give me more guaranteed function on ALL of the stats provided. Season 8 makes it increasingly important, if you want a strong build, to carefully choose all 6 items, because the new starters and their upgrades mean that there's less flexibility for the remainder of the item slots.

In addition, we can understand a concept but state that we feel that concept is weak or has issues. We don't have to "respect" the concept as in putting it on a pedestal or saying "okay, you have a purpose behind this build so we're 100% cool with it." I don't get that idea.

So understand that it's also frustrating for us. We ALSO take our own personal time to comment and try to educate. SF historically has a pretty common negative outlook from the community for the amount of "bad" builds on the site that can be published by absolutely anyone. We've been trying to change that viewpoint, by promoting good builds and guides, and helping people improve the ones that need improving. Part of that is handled by the system we have in place, which is voting.

Public forums and published builds and ideas create the opportunity for criticism. Functionally operating in an online forum requires an understanding and acceptance for the possibility for conflicting opinions. From what I've seen, the majority of reasonable discussion has come from many of the veterans and regulars of the site. It seems that even though you requested feedback by checking the feedback box, what you were truly looking for was full approval and praise of your build and nothing else. In a different world, I would wish when effort is put forth, the person is given props. But here, we're talking about build function and critique. I expect that, going forward, this will be understood.

"this whole thing came to be with downvotes and negative comments"

We are allowed to express our opinions with the voting system. You publicly published this guide, meaning you open yourself up to our feedback. We are allowed to agree/disagree with your build, and likewise, you are allowed to take/ignore our feedback.

You mention we started filling your guide with negative comments. This just isn't true. Everyone here gave constructive criticism of why we thought your guide was wrong. No where did we attack you personally.

If anything, it was you who started the negative comments with your reply to AmoralOne, "...hanging around with the staff won't help people with your build choices though. You can see straight everything by looking into your guides. I feel bad for the new players." Implying AmoralOne is getting favors by hanging around the SmiteFire staff and his guides are super generic and unhelpful to newer players.

If you feel I've misinterpreted something, then feel free to correct me.

Thank you, I appreciated it! Good luck with this, as Ares you know you won't be able to 'support' your team as much, more of agro/give them kills/cripple the enemy/offer some ccr/prots but into a comp that doesn't at least feed, goes pretty good.

How would you complete your idea: Embrace-Focus-Sov-Shogun-Relic-...
what sixth item and what shoes replacement (hopefully Rod :P).

Burning beads, CCR immune ults, getting then some kills for my pals with ulting the enemy. Speed for survival, jukes and fun (I don't play him and gods like him much, but when I do, I want some fun, being low mobility, without adding to it, it is not fun for me but also fares pretty good).

^Came here to return the favor of praising each other into comments' sections for Amoralone.

I'm aware of your situation by the first comment. I should have talked in more simple terms. But you see, you have understood something, your builds are basically the same for every support god. It shows by the badge at your guides how much you are hanging around, but especially by commenting without understanding simple, written logic and concepts. It's ok to want to conform and strike some points. Its also ok to respect different takes and play concepts. But it is your way, your way into builds and may your way lead you to success and fun. Good luck.

To clear the maliciousness, that you are not trying to be, I also wrote to Bran about this. "Seriously I can't think of it as a possibility to downvote a build because of that. Whoever to its right, but as for me - I will downvote only the obvious Troll builds that intend to harm players. Every other effort with good intentions, can't downvote." - I have yet to give a downvote. This way some intentions get more obvious.

You need to understand that this is a Concept how to play Ares. There are tens, hundreds of ways to play him. This is one way, one concept. I think one needs to be tolerant to diversity, and not try to personalize, throw every guide into some other unknown/disfigured concept.

I'm open to different opinions and feedback, but not to nonsense changing the idea to some generic patterns while being unable to grasp the written and obvious logic. I do get the reason though, someone needs some hugs from you guys. While you group hug, my build will stay for the time being as it is. It is not perfect, and i'm sure it will need updated timely and errors corrected if needed.

That makes sense. Ares doesn't really spam abilities, so I can see the appeal of more protections.

Can you tell me which one of my builds is bad? Ill gladly explain why none of my builds are incorrect

Applying a build in a match isn't objective, unfortunately. It's quite subjective to a variety of factors, including your skill level compared to others, your teammates' effectiveness compared to others, god matchups, your personal mindset at the time (we're subject to moments of frustration or confidence that affect how we play during a specific event), etc.

I could create a new account and potentially run newer players into the ground with a terrible build. Examples are and aren't fully applicable. The first sample match you provided is a ranked conquest game in Silver. This generally means there's a lot more flexibility to get away with certain things due to the general skill level. It may feel like the build is quite effective, but if you were to play against higher skill people, it might be less so. Then again, it can still work, as it again depends on quite a large set of variables. In the reverse, I could run the exact same build on a god as a Pro and still lose. Build isn't everything, skill and matchup plays a huge role, but we have control over the build, and so maximizing its potential is one thing we can do to improve our chances.

I'm not trying to pick on you, but I feel certain arguments and points need to be addressed appropriately. Some of your arguments just don't feel valid or make sense.

The problem with the item choice with regard to Rod of Asclepius isn't just MS diminishing returns. It's ONE argument against it. But it's one that I felt was valid to explain because you don't understand that component. Another argument is that he's not going to get pretty much anything out of the bonus heal except in specific situations. It's like saying Divine Ruin is core for a mage EVEN IF there's no healing on the enemy team.

And trivializing the choice because some games don't get to that stage isn't a good argument. This is an extreme case, sure, but I'll throw it out there to make a point. You're King Arthur, and you have a very solid build. Then you say "replace Boots with Deathbringer. Well it doesn't matter what you choose anyway because you probably won't get that far in your match." Point being, that argument is just not a good one.

In terms of proving a soft cap, read this well-known mechanics guide called The Word of Thoth. The explanation on movement speed and diminishing returns due to the 2 soft caps is found in section 1.6/1.6.1 on page 9.

Because this build sort of looks more like an arena one, not a support one. Like why do you have Genji's on Ares Support? Where is Sovereignty? Where is alternative / situational build options (that isn't just a boots replacment) and a possible build that doesen't include thebes? No mention of spirit robe or mantle or pridwen?

I forgot it but if you pay attention, speed is an important factor too why Rod. So Rod for the Power, Health, Aura/Passive and added 7% Speed to the other three speedy items. Synergy but choose to your likings, not a very big deal.

What Biggie said. Rod is decent and all, but it doesn't offer Ares much outside of 30 power, which isn't worth not getting something like staff or Spirit Robe.