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Smite is an online battleground between mythical gods. Players choose from a selection of gods, join session-based arena combat and use custom powers and team tactics against other players and minions. Smite is inspired by Defense of the Ancients (DotA) but instead of being above the action, the third-person camera brings you right into the combat. And, instead of clicking a map, you use WASD to move, dodge, and fight your way through the detailed graphics of SMITE's battlegrounds.
SMITEFire is the place to find the perfect build guide to take your game to the next level. Learn how to play a new god, or fine tune your favorite SMITE gods’s build and strategy.
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So I feel you have a small misconception about what the site fully is. In your quote, you start off right it is to share your ideas and that it does not have to be the next pro thing. However, it is also still the internet so everyone is entitled to their opinions. The other thing we long-term users pride the site on is its teaching aspect as most visitors will be looking for guidance. and this guidance comes in multiple things from general moba questions to item builds and god guides.
Essentially smitefire is a tool for certain things, but if you do not know how to handle the tool for the specific task. for the task of guidance it can easily become a hard tool to use.
The hardest thing for new players is knowing which guides/builds are helpful or harmful. Unless the title specifies something, they won't know it. That is why the voting system and comments exist.
for your last lines I do want to point out the following
I've taken off the guide request for comments/feedback.
As this quote shows this author had the asking for feedback checked on before. Therefore, people do make it known if they agree with any part of the guide including, but not limited to the build. (since this is mostly a build not much more to provide feedback on)
Also sadly one thing that will stay subjective is the way people receive criticism/feedback or provide it. I have been around long enough to see some people write solid helpful feedback about thing X or Y and then a creator reacting like he got harsh criticism reacting with personal attacks back, while the original feedback would be considered the nice not to direct way of telling someone. Not saying there isn't plenty unhelpful 'this build is bad' comments out there.
If none of us told others how to improve half of us would still be in Silver. I am very open minded towards different ways of building off-meta but you can't let someone teach people incorrect information and then come along and say "it's fine!" the way that you are. If people disagreed on this point there would be a lot more upvotes than downvotes.
If the build is in fact off-meta or not regularly viable (e.g. ADC Thoth w/ attack speed), and doesn't state this (perhaps because the person maybe even feels it's completely viable), we also have, directly within the system, the capability and the right to vote the way we see fit.
The regular members of SMITEFire that have invested a good amount of personal time into the site have also strived to educate people, whether it's why a build isn't optimal, or if a mechanic isn't understood, etc. I feel we do a pretty good job of that, especially in not just providing basic feedback such as build adjustment, but explaining why as well.
The biggest problem that unfolds from the above is what Devampi has described, that some people take initial criticism very, very personally. As I've said to you in PMs, I understand that it can be frustrating if you've put in work / effort and the first response you get is that something is wrong with your build and it should be fixed, especially if you really believe in your build. At the same time, I feel some of the criticism of some of the item choices have been absolutely valid, e.g.
You talk about being "open-minded." Again, we can absolutely do that, when it comes to admitted off-meta builds. If the build is not stating as such, and if the creator checks that they want feedback, they are subject to response. Even if they don't check that they want feedback, it's still an open forum and people are free to comment; it just becomes a situation that our feedback may or may not be considered.
With regard to "trying" a build, when you've played this game long enough and you've learned the mechanics and calculations and you intimately understand how the items work in given situations, I just don't feel we need to try it out to have the right to give feedback. I can tell you, if I build 5 legitimate Support items that work well for
- The 5 other (non-Asclep) items will still allow me to tank damage well
- I will get slight benefit from additional MS provided by Asclep
- The health and power from Asclep will still be helpful
- The aura Asclep provides will still give Ares added power based on his passive
- I am unlikely to get much benefit from the healing aura
Based on that last point, I can tell you that I would much rather prefer an item that is going to give me more guaranteed function on ALL of the stats provided. Season 8 makes it increasingly important, if you want a strong build, to carefully choose all 6 items, because the new starters and their upgrades mean that there's less flexibility for the remainder of the item slots.In addition, we can understand a concept but state that we feel that concept is weak or has issues. We don't have to "respect" the concept as in putting it on a pedestal or saying "okay, you have a purpose behind this build so we're 100% cool with it." I don't get that idea.
So understand that it's also frustrating for us. We ALSO take our own personal time to comment and try to educate. SF historically has a pretty common negative outlook from the community for the amount of "bad" builds on the site that can be published by absolutely anyone. We've been trying to change that viewpoint, by promoting good builds and guides, and helping people improve the ones that need improving. Part of that is handled by the system we have in place, which is voting.
Public forums and published builds and ideas create the opportunity for criticism. Functionally operating in an online forum requires an understanding and acceptance for the possibility for conflicting opinions. From what I've seen, the majority of reasonable discussion has come from many of the veterans and regulars of the site. It seems that even though you requested feedback by checking the feedback box, what you were truly looking for was full approval and praise of your build and nothing else. In a different world, I would wish when effort is put forth, the person is given props. But here, we're talking about build function and critique. I expect that, going forward, this will be understood.
We are allowed to express our opinions with the voting system. You publicly published this guide, meaning you open yourself up to our feedback. We are allowed to agree/disagree with your build, and likewise, you are allowed to take/ignore our feedback.
You mention we started filling your guide with negative comments. This just isn't true. Everyone here gave constructive criticism of why we thought your guide was wrong. No where did we attack you personally.
If anything, it was you who started the negative comments with your reply to AmoralOne, "...hanging around with the staff won't help people with your build choices though. You can see straight everything by looking into your guides. I feel bad for the new players." Implying AmoralOne is getting favors by hanging around the SmiteFire staff and his guides are super generic and unhelpful to newer players.
If you feel I've misinterpreted something, then feel free to correct me.
Also, I think you slightly missed your goal as it revolves around
after that, I think there are better items to utilize the
and then we end with
and as your argument below was for the speed. I would have recommended something like
I fully know I contradicted myself as during the last sentence I even acknowledge that you will still lack prot. the best way to fix it is either skip thebes for
Until Thebes gets stacked, because health, prots and price - being able to get it pretty early
Order is really subjective to how you play the game, the reason I swap them is that in mid the 100 extra hp and 10% ccr has a bigger effect than the AS reduction which mages don't use. Might be slightly more useful against the jungle but most are burst reliant not AA. and honestly Witchblade is too situational as it value depends on AA reliant gods. Just grabbing it because there is 1 aa reliant person while I could also grab sovereignity. honestly my build for this type of game would be:
(
As per other suggestions, it is clear already form the notes and the comments here why the chosen items. I don't choose
Honestly, most of your notes don't really explain a lot about the item choices just grouping them under spamming blink ult. which to an experienced player is attributed to having
on the alternatives point, the reason rod gets picked on is that your alternatives are 10x better for your sample build, leaving the question why rod is more important than the other 2 alternatives. and the argument of 'it's a good stat stick' being super weak for an item as expensive as rod compared to the stats or price on your alternatives
what sixth item and what shoes replacement (hopefully Rod :P).
Burning beads, CCR immune ults, getting then some kills for my pals with ulting the enemy. Speed for survival, jukes and fun (I don't play him and gods like him much, but when I do, I want some fun, being low mobility, without adding to it, it is not fun for me but also fares pretty good).
the other item can be even more things as it is not bound towards needing a certain stat. you can think things like
rod is sadly not really on that list as it requires a strong healer and they often build it themselves.
If one decides to go
I think with the combination of your other prot items if you grab
So right off the bat you got the starter right, that will end up being
Something that we see frequently is players who are in a lower elo using builds do have issues, sometimes big and sometimes small and they believe that because it is objectively good in their games that it is good no matter what. Realising this difference and even at least attempting to see if feedback is good or not by testing in comparison is one of the first steps to actually improving not only in your builds but as a player as well.
Hey I've been there too. My builds used to suck, some of them probably still do. I had criticisms of my builds and I thought these guys were just trying to **** on my effort but once you sorta take a step back and try new or different things openly you realise that not everything you think you know is what you thought. I've learned a lot about this game and I'm still learning now, and I'm sure most others here are in that same boat.
You need to understand that this is a Concept how to play Ares. There are tens, hundreds of ways to play him. This is one way, one concept. I think one needs to be tolerant to diversity, and not try to personalize, throw every guide into some other unknown/disfigured concept.
I'm open to different opinions and feedback, but not to nonsense changing the idea to some generic patterns while being unable to grasp the written and obvious logic. I do get the reason though, someone needs some hugs from you guys. While you group hug, my build will stay for the time being as it is. It is not perfect, and i'm sure it will need updated timely and errors corrected if needed.
You talk about Support and Guardians when you have like 5 or 10% games with them? Most of your games are different roles from guardian/support.
"You can check my smite.guru every single game I play I end up late game right next to boots." -man you are a strong liar. Go on and see your games, you have only one or two games where it came to boots replacement as a MAGE. NONE as a support/guardian - little number of games in it as you have.
Just want to make it clear, from the first of your comments, if I wanted to climb ranked/elo I know what is to be done, but I don't like repetitiveness. I like to get the best out of the game, try new things, new gods, different builds, get the most fun out of it while being as much effective and of help into matches. In the mean time, you grind Elo Casual Conquest with premade comps.
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You know, I can spot copy cat, same pattern builds like yours from a mile away. Good luck together with didacted.
If you go back to AmoralOne's profile and you take a look at the Ranked tab, you'll see that he's a Masters player. Same with Didacted. I think that's pretty strong proof that he's a strong overall player with good knowledge. And he didn't feel the need to actually state this, because it's not all that important to the conversation, which is about build and itemization.
Im down to talk supp with you, but you just wanna fight about everything else lol im still waiting for the only question I asked to be answered though, what support guide do I have that is wrong?
Also yes I spam the same 1-2 builds because they are the best standard builds. lol
Dude, stop lying to yourself. I'm sorry for being somewhat harsh to you but you need to create something of your own first, to be able to comment on something else.
You see, we have different priorities. I want to enjoy the game with something of my own, you want to grind the ladder and copy the meta. That makes sense to you I believe.
So again I ask you, which one of my build guides is incorrect?
cLaw is admittedly not looking for a meta build, or to produce a meta build. They feel this is a legitimate build because they feel it has worked for them. This is thus not an intentional troll build.
Points have been brought up about possible improvement to the build, and cLaw does not like them or want to utilize them. That is their prerogative. They also do not want to acknowledge or answer certain questions or demands (e.g. no acknowledging proof of mechanics understanding, no straight answer on which builds they feel aren't solid, etc.), so it's not doing anything to keep asking.
I can appreciate trying to think outside the box. If everyone just built meta and was in it just to win rather than have fun, this game would suck. (Not accusing anyone of this, mind) At the same time, I feel good, mature discussion should be had without the need for personal insults, and if that's not going to happen, then the conversation isn't worth the time.
Thanks to everyone for attempting the conversation, even OP, and for refraining from further comments on this. I've taken off the guide request for comments/feedback.
Not agreeing is a weird thing to argue on being a personal reason. The example comments below not agreeing with you isn't something that I see being personal. Taking something personal is..."I don't like your tone." "I don't like your attitude." "You insulted me and now I'm going to insult you." This isn't that from what I see. Rather, the build has some issues, these people are addressing and commenting on those issues. Those are legitimate reasons for a downvote IMO. Not understanding that there's a MS soft cap (2 in fact) isn't a crime, but it's a point that strengthens an argument against a build that's specifying into a high amount of MS (Shoes, Witch, Relic, late Asclep, when you've already got some solid MS potential through your kit). If we're talking objectively evaluating a build as you've suggested would be great, the presence of Asclep being an option while something like
Again, I feel the build is generally solid. There are some other options you have, and granted you don't have to list them or agree with them, but they're there...
- Due to
Sentinel's Embrace's upgrade protection aura that strongly beats out Thebes' aura, many have been skipping Thebes. You alternatively could then opt into 
Sovereignty in its place.
- This probably then changes your build too much in terms of order requirement, because dropping Thebes means you'll likely need magical prots earlier.
- I think
Witchblade might be in there a bit early. Most ADCs won't be a huge threat at that point of the game, and while Witch got a nice buff, I don't know that it's needed then. I don't have any major issues with it built that early, but also feel it shouldn't be fully relied upon as a physical prot item. This then moves into considering the rest of your item choices, and none of the rest of those items provide physical protections (outside of the Embrace upgrade). That's potentially okay, but having Relic and Asclep in there as well, with both providing no protections, hurts things a bit. Really, this ends up circling back to the choice of Asclep. You seem to want to brush it off as no big deal, but it 100% is affecting the strength of the build as a whole.
I do like different build concepts, and people making an effort to showcase these. I don't think adhering 100% to the meta with every build helps the site...otherwise, we just need a single build for every god and can ignore everything else. But when applying different concepts of builds, I think it's also important to understand the various mechanics (e.g. MS caps, protection / health / effective health interactions), and to put forth an honest effort to engage with comments, and not just hold to your concept. Consider suggestions, admit when a differing opinion might have good value, etc. Stating "your argument is invalid" isn't doing that.1132813809
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Why downvote for shoes replacement when lately, rarely it does get to it. Not using these matches to prove my point but actually rarely it gets there. Then downvoting when clearly there are stated for New and Other players The Alternatives for that. It is left for - personal reasons. Anyway, good luck with the builds.
Stating Diminishing Returns as a problem in item choice when it affects for hardly 2.8% in total is invalid, it is not soft cap. Unless I am wrong. If you know the mechanics better, prove it.
You misunderstood, I said Dowonvoting for personal reasons (aka Downvoting because I don't agree with you) is not objective and it is harmful. That is what happened here in this guide. You are a part of it, so its ok,the guide isn't directed to the elevated members of the forum.
If you think you are right, try the build in the field. I'm 100% sure you will have a different opinion. Theoretizing without applying based on the meta, arguably if there is still one formed in this season, is not helpful.
I could create a new account and potentially run newer players into the ground with a terrible build. Examples are and aren't fully applicable. The first sample match you provided is a ranked conquest game in Silver. This generally means there's a lot more flexibility to get away with certain things due to the general skill level. It may feel like the build is quite effective, but if you were to play against higher skill people, it might be less so. Then again, it can still work, as it again depends on quite a large set of variables. In the reverse, I could run the exact same build on a god as a Pro and still lose. Build isn't everything, skill and matchup plays a huge role, but we have control over the build, and so maximizing its potential is one thing we can do to improve our chances.
I'm not trying to pick on you, but I feel certain arguments and points need to be addressed appropriately. Some of your arguments just don't feel valid or make sense.
The problem with the item choice with regard to
And trivializing the choice because some games don't get to that stage isn't a good argument. This is an extreme case, sure, but I'll throw it out there to make a point. You're
In terms of proving a soft cap, read this well-known mechanics guide called The Word of Thoth. The explanation on movement speed and diminishing returns due to the 2 soft caps is found in section 1.6/1.6.1 on page 9.
You say you don't understand that component, but a comment before you came to the same conclusion like me - different number units but same conclusion. Can you make more sense?
Just like you are using invalidly the soft cap (negligible) like it's not the only one, but it adds, same I added that to the other arguments I presented here. Simple as that, the shoes replacement item there is not a reason to downvote. Why? Because there ARE stated The Alternatives Clearly. I don't even have to explain the reason for the downvotes, it is has become even more obvious. Btw, getting entirely out of contest with analogies doesn't make much sense either.
As I said earlier, I have no problem with most of the general build choices; there are just one or two things that I feel should be adjusted to make it more functional. I proved my mechanics understanding as requested (does it now make more sense and did I in fact prove my understanding to you? You didn't address that); reading the rest of the guide may help your overall understanding of the various calculations behind the game as well.
There are plenty of other items that provide you with HP, and power isn't necessary on a Guardian as much because scaling isn't important. So it is entirely useless.
Either way your argument for picking up an item that has as much synergy on a god as any other item with the same base stats is "invalid".
18% MS on
If we consider Focus (18%) + Witch (7%) + Relic (7%) + Asclep (7%), we're looking at 365 * 1.39 = 507, which is right in the middle of the first soft cap (457-540.5). The actual MS would then be 457 + 0.8(507-457) = 497. Not a huge drop honestly.
But then we really should consider
MS at max would be 365 * 1.84 = 671.6. That calc would be 523.8 + 0.5 (671.6-540.5) = 589.35. At that point you're getting closer to dropping 100 MS points, and that's where you see the 2nd soft cap come into stronger play.
Granted, you're not often going to have 3 targets. But at the same time, the more of any stat you build, the less valuable it becomes. Arguing that Asclep is still a valid item partially due to the MS it brings is honestly not a good argument.