lets make patch notes: warriors

We did vamana to. Nemesis is done and ready for shipment sub. Who else needs balencing?

I think we're done, actually. We just need to categorize all of these suggestions, before making it a vote, or just presenting them as is and hoping that HiRez picks one of them.

Also, GIVE A REASON! HiRez won't listen to any suggestions if we don't say WHY the god needs a change.

Wait. Uh.

I just had a thought. What if we changed bruisers as a whole?

A lot of people are complaining that bruisers, no, warriors, are too strong right now. Not Sun Wukong or Nemesis, but ones like Tyr, Guan Yu, or Chaac. And they probably have a point.

Warriors are and should be versatile. The problem, as I see it, is that they are Jack-of-all-Stats, Master-of-None, more like Master-of-All. They have base numbers belonging to a tank, scalings belonging on assassins, and CC on tanks, again.

Look, you guys know what versatility is my thing, and I'm all for flexbility. But I don't think gods should be able to deal good damage without building damage, or be obscenely difficult to kill while building pure damage. In other words, they shouldn't get both good scalings and base values, but average base values and average scalings.

Let's make a few comparisons. Athena vs Loki vs Tyr.

Athena is my example of a fairly balanced bruiser (when built so). Her CC is fairly average by warrior standards (a 1-2 second taunt is actually pretty tame when compared to a huge knockup or a knockback + stun). She has nasty base damage on her Shield Wall, but relatively average scalings total for her basic abilities (adding up to 150-200%, depending if she uses Reach). For additional utility, she can make herself block basic attacks and his good mobility, along with a teleport.

Compare that to Loki. His CC is poor by warrior standards. His base damage is also surprisingly low, even with his passive. His scalings on his basic abilities, on the other hand, are 220%, up to 320% if you include that basic attack with his abilities, and up to 440% scalings with his ultimate. (I did not include Decoy for obvious reasons.) As for utility, he has stealth and a Combat Blink/Combat Trick ability, and slow immunity.

Now, let's look at Tyr he has 150-250% scalings. With his ultimate, he has 270-370% total scalings, depending on how you play him and how much abilities you utilize (I should mention that his combo makes it really easy to hit with at least one basic attack). His base damage is very, very, very high, rivaling Athena's. His CC is considered one of the best in the game. As for utility, he has an enormous leap, multiple escapes, a heal, and the CC reduction from Unyielding.

Can you see my point now?

And just to prove that this isn't just about Tyr, let's look at Chaac and Guan Yu.

Chaac: 130% scalings and decently-high base damage, but this issue is muddled when you consider the utility from Rain Dance and how it makes it easy to use basic attacks. With his ultimate, his abilities have 250% scalings, although this varies somewhat. On top of that, the CC from his ultimate alone is enough to make him top-tier among bruisers in terms of CC, at the very least. His utility is massive, with a teleport, temp invincibility, healing, a debuff, and a minor protection steroid.

Guan Yu: 250% scalings and stupidly high base damage (Seriously, just look at it: Taolu Assault, Cavalry Charge), up to 270-449%, although it is most likely around 375-ish. I can't honestly say his CC is bad when he has a 1.5 second stun on an ultimate that can potentially have a 30 second cooldown. His utility is massive, with a heal, a protections debuff, a protection buff, and an automatic CC reduction.

My proposed solution is very simple: Just tweak the numbers a bit. Chaac's base damage and scalings are fine, so just tweak his CC. Guan's scalings need a severe change, mainly his Taolu Assault, maybe lower the base damage to 500 and the scalings to 220%. Tyr also needs the Guan Yu treatment.

tl;dr: I would like warriors to receive small nerfs to preserve their versatility without making them strong is nearly every department.

... you are basicly asking to redo this thread...

here is why them being stronger then everyone else on paper does not mean they are stronger in game. most warriors no burst or no fast continous damage. their damage takes a lot of time and you will likely nevery be hit by the full attack.

example guan yu. at level 1 taolu does 160 on the full attack. that is quiet a lot for a level 1 compared to zeus his 3 for example who does like 180 (not sure). however, that would mean you would get hit by it for 3 full seconds. this is almost never the case. so in you will likely only get hit by half of it at most level 1 fight senarios which wouldn't result in that much damage.

guan also gets sudo silenced. he can only move while in his 3. so no extra damage from basics or other abilities. his ult is easy to juke and its rare to get hit by the whole thing.

for tyr. i asked for his damage and tankieness nerfed when we were at him in return for making his abilities not AS jukable and make him less reliant on blink so he can be viable.

people disagreed with me including you not saying he didn't need any or change like that and needed only nerfs. the thing i was trying to tell you is that gods who are basicly forced into blink don't end up viable unless everything else about them is OP as hell.

chaac i was asking for less healing and surviablity for a bit more damage if i remember correctly since i thought he was OP but people using the argument "he can't get fed on his own so he isn't a probleme" which makes no sence, the reason chaac isn't picked more is purely his wave clear, make that better he would be OP so nerf some of his immortality and you win but people didn't want that so nothing happend here with him. (seriously a god doesn't need the ability to get fed to be OP)

so i don't know what you want now because i feel like when we were in this thread dicussing gods i felt like i was the only one who had 1 clue how strong these gods were in reality AND NOW YOU TELL ME YOU FIGURED IT OUT?!

-_____- im not amused right now.

I'm gonna have to agree with All4. Guan is an excellent example, as he has one of the highest damage potential of all the warriors, but the most sustained damage out of them as well.

I'll put it this way; look at Eset.
She has 230% scaling just on her 1 & 2. Her ultimate is potentially the strongest ability in game, capable of dealing 1120 + 175% of her magical damage. And if you look at her ult without it being charged even a bit, its scaling still brings her entire kit to 285% scaling. (also, didn't calculate the 1.5x potential of Spirit Ball).

Now yes, she is a Mage, and her role is pretty much damage, but don't forget, she is one of the only gods in the entire game to have two forms of hard CC that isn't knock-ups, a slow, a protection steal (which she shares), a 3 second kncok-up immunity, which also boosts your speed by 25% without backpedal penalty, and immunity to roots, and she can also heal, and she can mitigate damage.

Just for comparison, considering that you don't stay in tornadoes for more than once, Ao Kuang gets 270% scaling.

But that is all on paper. Most of he times, Isis doesn't land all of her gusts, her staff isn't fully charged all the time, and she can easily be interrupted by on her Wing Gust...

You just can't look at those things on paper. She is like Guan Yu in that sense.


Yes, I do believe that Tyr does a little bit too much damage, but aside from him, I think Guan & Chaac are okay (of course, if you take that immunity from his ult).

@ All4: I'm not asking to redo this entire thread. Just think of my post as a large-scale suggestion:

Slightly lower the numbers on some abilities on some warriors. That's my proposal. It's not too difficult to implement, either. And I already explained why I think it's necessary.

I don't really see the problem here.

@ Jordenito: I know the difference between sustained and burst damage, but take it from me, Guan does way too much damage for my liking. Have you tried playing Guan support before? Where you don't build a drop of power and still end up dealing a lot of damage? It's pretty bad.

Remember, I'm not asking for much, here. I'm not trying to nerf them into the ground. I still want to give them stuff that they're really good at.

-50 base damage and -30% scalings on Taolu Assault (500 damage + 170% is still very strong). To compensate, maybe increase the defenses shredded slightly, by 6 (27 at max instead of 21). The higher protection shred means he'll be picked more as a support-bruiser, but at least he'll be dealing less damage on his own! Guan Yu will still have a purpose after this.

Tyr will be similar. His heal, maybe lower the scalings from 50% to 40%, and reduce the base healing by 30. Now, instead of slapping a jungle camp for 2/5 his health, back, he'll only get 1/3 of his health back! Maybe reduce the base damage on Fearless from 480 to 440. His damage already falls off a decent amount late game.

These aren't huge or drastic changes. And I don't need a huge discussion on them, either. Just two questions:

Do Tyr and Guan Yu deal too much damage without building power? If yes, then reduce the base damage slightly.

Do Tyr and Guan Yu deal too much damage when building power? If yes, then reduce the contribution scalings slightly.

Simple as that. I assume you two vote no on both?

Oh sorry. I got you wrong. Okay, I've no problem with reducing the damage on Taolu Assault a bit, and I'll gladly accept back more shred from it. I'd even like it to be 10 (30 max) and, much like you've said, make the stun on his ultimate scale.

As for Tyr, I do believe that the base damage on Fearless should be reduced a bit. At level 10, one Fearless is enough to take down ~40-50% of a Mage's health. And reducing the heal a little bit is also welcome.

do neither of you understand that tyr is NOT viable?! reducing his damage does jack **** for a god who has to much of it but is so unviable he isn't picked up?!

Wait, WHAT? Are you seriously calling Tyr NOT viable?

Are you serious? He's one of the best gods in the game!

THAT IS TRUE EXEPT FOR ONE VERY OBVIOUS AND BIG *** THING THAT IS CALLED BLINK!
HE IS IN HE SAME BOOT OF YMIR!

strong on paper but never picked because he is forced into blink. he can't hold the solo lane as well since he either can't get hog or tp to towers. some would argue that tp to towers is not neccesary but then you haven't been in solo lane without it. your tower goes down to quickly.

hog is needed for level one.