Dissecting Smite #1: Oversexualization, Stereotyping, Double-Standards, and Other Misogyny in Smite :: Page 18

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wrote:

As in, he actually said that PHDs were a detriment to having a good source?

I never said that. Sub, seriously, please stop lying about me. This is getting abit ridiculous now. I think it would be better if from now on, if before you make a claim that I said something, you quoted me actually saying it. That way you'd know exactly what I have and haven't said. Just a thought.

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wrote:

So you are saying that Feminist opinions and research don't matter because they are bias?

I guess a person of any race can't make anything that has anything to do with racism then because they are clearly bias!

I guess gay people and straight people can't argue why gay couples should/should not be allowed to get married because they are clearly bias!

I am a feminist so guess I should just stop posting on any forum ever because clearly I'm bias!

I have to bring this up because I see this way to often:

People don't know the meaning of being a "Feminist".

It means:
Somebody who publicly supports the social, political, legal, and economic rights for women equal to those of men.

Sources:

I see people all the time confuse feminists with "somebody who hates men" or "somebody who things that woman are superior to men" (for the lack of a better word, a so called "Feme-nazi"). All feminists want is for woman to be treated equal to men. Not better, not worse.

Sorry, this might be a bit of topic.
But I really hade to let this out because it drives me insane whenever I say that I'm a feminist and people respond with "OMG! How could you betray your own gender!".

Look at this post.

Also, Feminism is about Gender Equality because Gender Inequality is biased against women, for the most part. Seriously, how is this a hard question? Why is this so hard to understand. LOOK AT NEX'S ****ING POSTS INSTEAD OF BASHING MINE FFS.

As for the quote:

wrote:

You're stating that the study is sound because it was published by a high-end college/university and was written by PHD students. That is an appeal to authority.

Note that the sources weren't written by PHD students, but people who actually got their PHDs.

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wrote:

snip

Then what is a good source?

You say that Wikipedia (arguably not true) and the news (which is true) is not a good source, only something official and academic is a good source.

So they show you an academic essay, written by a doctor. Its not a good source because the person who wrote it is bias?

Do we need to find a source that is written by a doctor that has no political opinion, has no gender, no sexual preference, no race and not a part of any country for you to deem it a non bias source? Because last time i checked such a person doesn't exist!

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All of Zanestorm's posts are biased, and their PHDs and stuff are also biased, and the dudes who wrote them were also clearly biased, which makes his sources better than ours for no reason other than him saying they're biased.

But people are never going to ignore Zanestorm because I am a ******** Hate Sink for most of this site and any opinion that goes against mine is instantly going to get +10 rep and a **** ton of support.

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Just a quick summary of what each side is doing wrong and something hopefully you guys keep in mind:

Sub's side: Not actually concentrating on the original topic which is oversexualization in Smite. I know it got a little bit diverted when replying to Zanestorm and one event led to another, but eventually you have to get back on track.

Zane's side: Not enough sources man. People keep asking you for sources, and if you don't give them sources, it's not gonna matter how well-crafted your argument is, it's gonna sound subjective.

I know that these have been said before, but hopefully hearing them from a third party will make you realize these

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wrote:

As for the quote:

Zanestorm wrote:
You're stating that the study is sound because it was published by a high-end college/university and was written by PHD students. That is an appeal to authority.

Note that the sources weren't written by PHD students, but people who actually got their PHDs.

So you misquoted him. Does he say that the PHD is a DETRIMENT? No. He says that just because it was written by someone with a PHD does not mean it's automatically correct.

You wonder why people don't agree with you? That's why. Because you accuse him of things he did not even say.

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wrote:

Then what is a good source?

You say that Wikipedia (arguably not true) and the news (which is true) is not a good source, only something official and academic is a good source.

So they show you an academic essay, written by a doctor. Its not a good source because the person who wrote it is bias?

Do we need to find a source that is written by a doctor that has no political opinion, has no gender, no race and not a part of any country for you to deem it a non bias source? Because last time i checked such a person doesn't exist!

A good source states if it has bias immediately in the introduction, and works to mitigate their bias by discussing all sides of the issue.

They will cite sources accurately. These sources will be cited to the page - with a relevant quote supplied or idea summarized linked to that page. They will not generally cite entire articles, that is reserved for the bibliography. They must be specific. Page 2. Page 15. Not pages 111-123 maybe somewhere.

They will cite up-to-date sources when discussing any topic with modern contention [like society and culture] as both can experience rapid change, so citing sources from 20-30 years ago is misrepresenting the present.

They will pull sources from a variety of locations with no obvious ideological bias, or when the bias is obvious, explicitly state it. Moreover they will pull sources that contend their points, to open up points for discussion and prove they're well-read on the subject and have made attempts to understand opponents POV.

There's obviously more to academic convention than that, but with regards to sources that's the gist of it.

Wikipedia has edit wars and numerous ideological groups editing articles favourably. A good example is wiki-project feminism, which is becoming notorious for edit wars. I believe a recent one was messing with a notable feminists page. I think her name was the Factual Feminist? Something like that. I think they also did it to another Feminist - Wendy Mcelroy. It's sadly common, as most people can edit the wiki [who don't know about academic convention or sources] it makes it far less reliable.

The person who wrote that source cites authors who, as I went over, don't substantiate their own claims with evidence. They're all dated authors for a modern topic like this, and all of them can be linked to ideological bias. The author didn't make any obvious attempt to cite non-feminist articles that I saw, nor did the articles that the author used that I saw and went over.

You're absolutely right - everyone has a bias! But academics work hard to mitigate that bias in many ways, from providing counter-arguments to pulling sources from different authors with different stances, to ensure they're presenting as much of the picture as they can within reason. Sadly, the author cited did not do that that I saw, neither did the authors citations either. Moreover the author(s) made some incredible claims with no citations at all to back it up, and the original author didn't provide any direct citations. It all adds up.

Ideally you'd provide numerous Academic sources with different points of view, that discuss different points of view, that all come together to support the claims made in the OP with hard evidence. That hasn't happened.

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wrote:

That is a good question.

I already answered that: because some people just want to play the game. Y'know, like the average gamer does.

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wrote:

For my side - I haven't made any claims to be proven, I've merely been contending claims from Sub. As Sub made the claims without valid evidence, in some cases with no evidence at all, the burden is on them to provide neutral and academic evidence that fits their conclusions, both implicit and explicit ones. If and when they provide that, I would locate sources that contest them and analyse the source they provide - as I have done prior - to see if it truly is a fair and relevant source to use.

Agreed that this is going way, way off-topic. We're firmly in the realms of a discussion on Feminism, rather than a discussion on whether sexualised Goddesses in video-games cause real-world sexism.

Remarkable (9)
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wrote:

Look past the ********, man, to see what he really means.

How would a sane person respond to our sources? "Oh, they have PHDs, that's as good as it can get." Or something along those lines.

Here is what Zanestorm is really saying: "PHDs aren't automatically correct, so I'm going to try to discredit your source as much as I can by emphasizing this fact."

Like it or not, PHDs are as good as most people can get. The only reason why he even mentions it is to try to weaken us.

Do you know why I keep saying to ignore him? Because he's trying to destroy this very discussion.

What he just said about PHDs applies to EVERYONE. Do you get the implications of this?

If Zanestorm brings a source, I can say that PHDs don't mean it's correct.

If someone else brings a source, I can say PHDs don't mean it's correct.

Zanestorm, inadvertently or not, is in the process of creating a thread where argument is impossible since you could just say the other guy's source is invalid. After all, if a PHD isn't good enough, what is?

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Dissecting Smite #1: Oversexualization, Stereotyping, Double-Standards, and Other Misogyny in Smite

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