Sub's Tier List

Dacoqrs i am really starting to doupt your ability to argue.

What you more often the not do is this. You make a comment that says somthing, someone disagree's and counters you argument which is pretty easy in most cases, you proceed to either A:ignore it, B: make a comment that is a half ***ed attempt at defending your arguement leading to the other countering that and leading back to these scenario's, or C: make a comment like you just made to chiulin that tries to invalidate what someone said by making it sound like it's 100% subjective and that it's their fault for not agreeing.

None of those scenario's make for interesting, usefull or good discussions someone can have with you.

You almost never yield, give up, admit you were wrong or tried to defend yourself for long enough to actually be right.

You make a comment to which it's almost immpossible to reply to to still sound right. I can litterly give multiple example's of comments you outright choose to just ignore in this thread alone.

This makes it unfun, annoying and useless to argue with you. Most of your arguments are either badly crafted meaning easy to counter, some are litterly so strangly written that me and others had to read it multiple times just to not make mistakes on what you tried to day or your arguments have nothing to do with the subject (not to mention the random snarky comments jabbing at members of this site).

Please for the sake of argument (no pun tended) try to improve on these points, i am not the only one who sees it this way.

The snark night in me wants to say so many things to these random comments.

I'm really reluctant to lock this thread considering how much good discussion that has occurred amongst all the ****. This is the FINAL warning before I lock this. Stay on topic or else this thread will be locked.

Well, honestly, defending myself feels pointless at times because I feel exactly about other people like how you described me:



Chiluin randomly makes a snark comment about how my argument is stupid and pointless. So what are my options? I could either just brush it off, like I did, or I could've verbally attacked him, like I really wanted to. Or I could've tried to defend myself by writing a 10 page essay, but would that change his opinion? Probably not. So, I just don't even bother. Honestly, I'm sorry you feel I'm not fun to argue with. You caught me on a bad day. Hopefully I'll be better tomorrow.

So, I'm trying to say that I COULD argue, but honestly, I feel like some people will never give up anyhows, and its extremely demoralizing, feeling like you're talking to a brick wall.

Anyway, watch this. Play Video

As it said. Dawngate master race.

Dac, we (meaning All4, I and, I think Shavul, among others) DID counter your argument, by questioning its premise.

The tier list is based on Bacchus as a support tank. Not as a mage. In Conquest, not Joust. Therefore, your argument that Bacchus is not garbage, is invalid, since you were evaluating essentially a different subject. (You can rate corn on sweetness, but dried corn is never going to be as sweet as sweet, fresh corn.)

You may think its shoving your argument aside. It is. However, it SHOULD be shoved aside, because we are here to evaluate fresh corn, not dried corn. Your video, which would be perfectly valid in the case of MAGE Bacchus, is invalid when talking about support tank Bacchus, because they play differently, have different strategies, build options, different levels of competition, different standards, and different goals.

And I agree with the others in that anyone can pick a bad god and do well. (Seriously, I've won games with positive scores as Artemis/Guan/Nu Wa jungle in season 1 ranked. And jungle Artemis/Guan/Nu Wa is NOT a good idea. It could have been me being carried, the enemy's stupidity, or me just snowballing after picking up a lucky kill. In any case, it doesn't stop Artemis, Guan, or Old Wa from being bad gods, at least in the jungle role.)

As for Raventhor's comment, yeah, this would be one of the cases where the niche isn't very useful. He's the niche of having a long AoE CC, longer than Geb or anyone else. The problem is, the CC isn't very useful, which is why, like you said, he should be in C or B tiers (aka low-mid tier). I think fusing low to low-mid tier to garbage is reasonable, esp with my previous justifications.

GREENEVERS YOU NEED TO LEARN TO LEARN TO LEARN. HARD CC IS CC THAT PREVENTS YOU FROM USING ABILITIES - Cripples, stuns, silences, suppression, taunts, knockups! Things like roots (by Smite's definition) are not hard CC. Including Intoxicate. Of course, there's a middle line, where things are blurry (like roots and cripples in Smite or interrupts in League), but Bacchus' ultimate certainly is not in the middle!

I complained about Kukulkan's tornadoes because it WAS annoying and frustrating - which is an entirely different issue from balance. However, in the exact same post, I also said I was concerned about his overnerf, and that he needed some kind of compensation, since his damage was essentially cut by 25%.

http://smite.gamepedia.com/Crowd_Control

It's one of the "lesser" hard CC's but it is considered hard CC nonetheless. It also interacts with magi's blessing which only acts against hard cc. *sigh*

you dont do this on just a "bad day", this has been frustrating me and other people for multiple threads.


you dont need essay's to defend your self. you could also have asked him to eleborate on why he thought that about your comment.

you say you could if you wanted to but i don't buy that, considering everytime you actually try you end up giving up after a comment or 3, you dont need to be a brick wall but when ever you draw some one else's arguments in question you are the brick wall and you better have some good defensive arguments to stay up.

people don't "give up", can mean multiple things, your arguments weren't good enough to convince them or to prove them wrong, your arguments weren't enough to change their mind or your arguments didn't hold up and they still had a lot of counter arguments.

@sub and green.

dont go into a defention wars about what is hard cc. the defenition of hard cc is not set in stone. just because a smite wiki says it is does not mean that the general understanding is the same or that on other sources its the same.

from the long standing defenition of hard cc since mmo's it should not be consider hard cc.