Sub's Tier List

And the opposing team had two gods that rely on heals, and your main source on damage mitigates that.

It was a good matchup. And you would probably get better results if you picked better gods, don't you think?

Most ignorant statement I've heard. You guys didn't "counter" my "argument", you basically just shoved it aside, said that Mage Bacchus "wasn't what you were talking about", of course it wasn't, cause that would mean I was right and you were wrong.

Well, if you watch, I actually level my 2 first, and I don't know if you saw when I killed Hercules when he had basically half his health left, even though I had SR up. And even when I did use my 3, that healing debuff only works when you're at Tipsy, which I didn't really build up to throughout the game.

And, honestly, I don't know, because I can't confidently say that in that same spot if I had picked, idk, Janus for example, I would've gone 10-0.

actually i was talking about the fact that you think you having one good game means that he must be good.

we live in universe with endless possiblities so you showing off and having a good game as baccus was your prove that he is good, one good game can't deside that.

you showing it's possible is something i'd say to "well duh".

as for the part of mage baccus.

you knew sub and everyone else wasn't talking about damage baccus. your "prove" got shoved aside because it has nothing to do with the ongoing discussion as you can look at mage bacchus as an entirely different view point in terms of usefullness.

Lol, U wot m8? Seriously, sub has been at the top reaches of the smite ladder for a long time, and your calling him BAD? Do you even know who your talking about anymore?! Also, dude, mage bacchus and support\tank bacchus are VERY different. Sub's tier list is looking at gods in their INTENDED ROLE, which for bacchus is tank\support, not mage.

Did I call Sub bad? No. I said someone (Bacchus) who is as bad as Sub makes them sound.

Read over that, bud. I'm saying that Bacchus is as bad as Sub makes him sound. Not that Sub is bad. Read the post carefully before you put words in my mouth, "m8ty".

Just to give my two cents on Bacchus, I find him mid tier, which this list doesn't have. The reason why is because he's a stronger Ares in my book. He's one of the few guardians with an AoE CC ultimate that lasts longer than a split second (like Sylv's short knockup, or Geb's relatively short one) but it's more reliable than Hades's or Ares's. Meanwhile, he still does have a decent basic kit with a knockup and a stun+healing reduction to put him over Ares. You can say it's easily interruptable, but if they're using a CC on the guardian you've done your job in soaking up what should be used on your carries. Additionally, Bacchus is one of those guardians at risk of being built mage because his base damage is already so good, meaning he can't even completely be ignored. But if you're not ignored, you're drawing attention as the guardian. You at least see my point.

I'll be the person to acknowledge, though, his downsides. His mana consumption is bad, which is exacerbated in conquest. (Daco, your video was joust, which is instant 3v3 teamfights and higher gold income/levels, plus a very short map, which bypasses his mana problems.) I find during the midgame his mana issues start to fade (Also, Breastplate of Valor isn't an answer as someone said earlier. He needs Mp5 not base mana because he must constantly be casting his 1).

He also doesn't have reliability in his 3. It has awesome healing reduction and a stun, but it's often cut short. Even though I said that's good you're soaking up CC to stop it, it's still the fact that it can be stopped.

But that's why I'd leave him mid tier. He's the only guardian with a knockup (disregarding Sobek's Fling), which is an AoE, which can't be cleansed, on a basic ability. Then he has a ridiculously long CC that, even though it isn't hard CC, must be cleansed or you're basically running away for 8 seconds. Sub has said that the reason there's only viable and garbage is because you either can do your job or someone else does it better, but I don't quite see a god who does exactly what Bacchus does. There are better guardians, but he is unique in what he does so I think he can be stretched to viable. However if this were a longer tier list, I'd have him at high C or low B.

That's my two cents at least.

I think things are kind of hitting the fan right now, why not stop and not get in trouble with all mighty Buddha?

And what good two cents it was.

I agree completely.

ok, dac, you're right. I'm sorry, I did in fact read that wrong, my bad. still, i'm not the only one who took it that way originally, so maybe explaining yourself a bit more would avoid this confusion in the future, eh?