Sub's Tier List

Just because ra has a low cool down on his ult and can use it to clear the wave, doesn't mean it's his wave clear. Isis has a better clear than Ra early game. You're not using Ra's 4 every single wave.

Also nex either me you or sub misinterpreted what dueling means. I did forget about loki's 1 for some reason but what I meant by a dueling kit is that you focus on single targets.

I'll respond to you later sub since I haven't really discussed my argument that well and is in more of a form of a rant. But I'm not shoving words up your ***, I can directly quote you as well (on my phone so not now lol). I said you can tower dive with arachne's spiders. Then you bring in something about her ultimate is the only effective way. I'd suggest you to re-read both mine and your post. Anyways some of your points being valid some are clearly not. I'll get back to you when I get home.

lol, read through it^

Hm... Yes I was a bit conceited as to what Nemesis can do. Every god has counters and my statements about Mercury and Serqet were pretty much useless. This still does not change the fact that she is not a bad pick in today's meta. Nemesis does come out late game like many other assassins. Maybe not as strong as a Kali or Mercury but she does shine. Can you tell me what you mean by "dueling" ? I might have been mistaken on exactly what it meant. But I have a clear understanding of what Loki is meant for, considering the amount of experience and time I've spent on him @nex/sub.

You still haven't found reasoning in why pros pick up Nemesis (and Arachbae) as much as they do. They're obviously not garbage if they're commonly being played in pro league. Maybe not as great as a pick like Serqet but it's clear they're not plain garbage.

Back on the main topic, Arachne. Maybe tangled web doesn't do the job for things like Assassinate or Sonic Boom but I find it to be okay for abilities like Swift Vengeance. I'd find it an advantage to spend a little mana so an enemy burns an ult. As I told you, dashes don't do much for you when you break through tangled web. Even if you dash away, the trail that makes them slow and makes you faster covers a greater distance than before. The only common ability that makes tangled web as a gap closer ineffective are jumps. Jumps to increase the distance between you and your enemy? No problem. But jumps over walls, yes, spiders won't do anything for you there.

And to compare Isis and Agni... Both are actually great picks after Janus and Nu Wa. I'd say Isis was placed at a higher tier before and now it has kind of evened up. Both have been picked up a decent amount of times.

I don't really feel bad for being a jackass earlier anymore, Subzero008, from what I have observed you seem to want to fight with people.

My first reason for believing this:



You pretty much pick a position and justify it with... a completely ******** idea that will do nothing except make people annoyed. Have a little empathy man. You could have said anything from " Hades ultimate roots him in spot, or Pillar of Agony is easily negated by Purification Beads.

Secondly, when people point out your mistakes such as in this instance:



You decide to instead of A) admitting that your wrong, or B) attempting to counter argue these points in a rational respectful way, you choose option C), which entails of:









I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one thinking, ergo posts pop up like this:





I know i'm not a fancy editor, but I have the common sense to see when what should be a sensible discussion turns into an all out mud fight. Even though this is your post Sub, and no one is forced to read it, I think a few people would prefer it if you could share your knowledge instead of slapping people in the face with it.

I am not in any way trying to start a fight or hurt anyones feelings, i'm simply observing.

-theangrytoast

You guys need to get off the butt hurt ladder. You've seen Sub post like this for months, or years. That's just how he acts. If he starts getting pissy, ignore him. Don't get pissy back. >.>

It's literally that simple.... Get your Jimmies un-rustled now. Pleaaa?

*Steps off butt hurt ladder....

You're probably right...

i wasn't pissy :P

Greenevers on this post ;)

Green, dueling does not equal assassination. The idea of a dual is to fight an enemy 1v1 over a more prolonged period of time,such as in lane or when fighting over an objective. Loki 1-shots people from stealth and then tries to gtfo. Nem has almost no way to burst done her target that fast, making ehr a bad ASSASSIN. Although she duals well and scales well into the late game, there are assassins who do that better and without not having the early game assassination prowess, such as merc.

Ah, thank you for clearing that up for me.

However I disagree to the fact Nemesis cannot burst down a target fast and that she's a bad assassin. Instantly taking away half of your enemy's HP and finalizing with Slice and Dice and 1 or two auto attacks is pretty fast to me. Sure, it may not be as much as Loki's burst but Nemesis turns out to be a safer option. This is because to apply your maximum burst as a Loki, you have to burn your Vanish not only for the damage but also you are in close range of the target. Leaving your only other escape which is usually used to finish off the kill.

Whereas with Nemesis, you have a shield to save you from some extra damage and your Swift Vengeance is not part of your burst combo. So that is up to you to save as an escape or chase. So maybe some other assassins have more "burst" but Nemesis offers leeway where in different scenarios with other gods you won't be able to do much.

Lastly, early game Nemesis isn't actually as bad as you think. Usually a gank with an ult will get you a kill. However the downside is you generally won't get a kill without your ult early game unless you have great rotations.

I'm going to give a warning. I can tell this thread is getting close to becoming insults. Keep away from accusations and stick to discussion about the topic at hand.