Let's Make Patch Notes - Tanks in the Jungle/Solo and Pushing Viability

There are two main problems we are discussing here: The lack of flexibility in the role of a tank, and the lack of consequences to pushing. I'll start with the former.

Firstly, tanks are destined to go to the duo lane as support. There is no other option except for Ymir.

For tanks to jungle, they need some form of constant damage, and only Ymir can do it, due to Frostbite. Everyone else needs to build some damage items, and then they aren't really tanks.

For tanks to solo, again, they need some form of waveclear, which they lack. This is due to the importance of pushing. This can be approached by not making pushing as important, giving tanks some breathing room, but for the point of this discussion, we are looking at it this way.

Both of the above problems are solved if tanks were given a way to clear efficiently, without raising power - they should still be tanks.

(Normal Melee minions have 375 health, Ranged Minions have 270 health, and Big Minions have 720 health.)

I propose some starting items, and I have a few ideas. The stats of the items aren't important, only the passive matters, The goal here is to make some effects that will boost a tank's waveclear, without being so good that everyone will buy it. Alternatively, some of these ideas can be fused with Bumba's Mask. Doesn't really matter. (Keep in mind that these are just ideas that I vomited out in a few minutes. I'm just brainstorming, okay?)

• Minions within 20 feet take 2.5% of their health as damage every second.
  
  
• Your basic attacks deal 40 additional damage, does not stack with contributions from power.
  
  
• Your abilities deal 10% of the minions' max health as additional damage.
  
  
• Your basic attacks deal 25 additional damage to minions.
  
  
• You deal 10% of your maximum health as additional damage on your basic attacks to minions.
  
  
• You deal 10% of your maximum health as additional damage on your abilities to minions.
  
  
• Your basic attacks instantly kill any minion below 30-20% health.
  
  
• Your abilities instantly kill any minion below 30-20% health.
  
  
• Your abilities deal 20-30% additional damage to minions. This additional damage does not stack with the contributions from power.
  
  
• Your basic attacks deal 20-30% additional damage to minions. This additional damage does not stack with contributions from power (aka useless for physicals).

Any of these sound good? I'll open the next topic, when my eyeballs don't feel like they're going to fall out.

how about none of the above.

the tanks of smite are not ment for solo laning. ymir is the only one who can do it and he can give most warriors a redicoulessly difficult time just trough the power of him being able to stop you from clearing with cc and and in that time he has already cleared the full wave. meaning that the warrior has to fight a full minion wave and ymir.

there are only so many warrior who can do that.

if all of the tanks get this ability then that would be the end of the warrior role. simply because they owuld be able to clear the wave faster while stopping the warrior from doing it, meaning that a full wave is waiting.

so either you lose gold or you lose health, and a lot of it.

also geb is able to solo lane, a sobek can solo lane and hades (still technecly a tank) can so there are already a lot off tanks who can do it if people know how to do it.

they don't need MORE power to do it. the reason you don't see it as often is that duo lane gets more kill potetial with 'em.

pushing is already very dangerous. getting pushed is already very safe if unless you are very heavely out numberd.


i want the solo lane to be a constant for of battle like i play it. i want there to be constant damage between the 2 warrior, who are already tanky as hell. some people say that its the most passive lane in the world. i call them liars and say that they have not solo laned in that if they say that. because if you think that it can't be aggresive and that there is no kill potential i say that you are just a bad solo laner.

however. if you tanks all the tanks can go into a solo lane or a jungle. then those people will be completely right. because ymir and athena jungle are just example's of how difficult it can be, how little damage you do and how much they do. a geb, ymir or sobek that don't have to build damage to solo lane (okay that does not count for sobek) will still do it and will still be turbo tanks.

those passives will only make it easier then it is no. and right now its pretty god damm easy.

I have to agree with ALL4, Sub. I don't think that there's a need to make tanks able to solo. Athena and Ymir can jungle without having to build glass-cannon. They can get two or mote defensive items that are not Void Stone.

And yes, generally speaking tanks have much less flexibility. Ares and Bacchus can't do anything but duo lane. And I also think that Sobek solo isn't a good choice. But that's okay. You can't really do anything with Artemis aside from duo laning, and I don't think that Arachne is effective outside of the jungle. I have seen Xbalanque solo once and I don't think it's quite viable. Ne Zha can really get outside of the jungle either.

It's okay to have some gods that don't have lane flexibility.

i have solo'd with xbal quiet a number of times and it is very effective. he has great wave clear that allow him to simultaniously poke the enemy. the enemy comes out one to many times and i get a passive stack.

I'm not sure if anyone here has seen a solo Sobek, but I have. It was the most ridiculous thing ever. He didn't push at all and as our Guan Yu was pushing. He would just throw them in the tower. He destroyed the Guan Yu early game. Reminded me a lot of what every Hercules does. Then mid game he was hitting insane damage. Over 700 with his ult and then would smack you with a Polynomicon effect. Late game? He was hitting over 1.2k with his ultimate on me(the adc). So no, they don't have a lot of push, but some of them can play a super strong defensive. So I think they can be viable in the solo lane, if played properly. They still won't outclass warriors, or some mages, but will work. It's like Sub's fabled Nu Wa jungle. :p

Sorry about the late replies.

@All4: I'm not saying their clear has to outpace a warrior's, and the problem is that tanks who are in the solo lane cannot build tank. That's what I want - the possibility of tanks going into the solo lane.

I'm not saying that Tanks should replace warriors in the solo lane, nor do I want solo lane to be constantly passive. I just want some more flexibility, and I don't see any downsides in introducing flexibility.

And tanks DO need help in solo laning. Almost nobody does it because it is considered unviable, and for good reason.

@Jordenito: Ymir can tank jungle, Athena cannot. That's because Ymir has two other forms of CC that are effective for ganks and jungle control, and even his main damage skill is a form of CC. Athena must sacrifice her CC to jungle, and she needs to build power to jungle effectively. Trust me, if you can't clear fast enough, even Athena's mobility won't help. You'll be stuck farming while the other jungler is ganking and roaming.

Also, if you would clarify something for me: What exactly is wrong with having tanks being able to solo? What is wrong with allowing gods to not build power but still be able to hold a lane, or at the very least, survive?

If tanks are able to solo or jungle better, that means support mages can become a thing. That's my 'ulterior motive.'

@Chiuiin: Is it C-H-I-U-I-I-N, or C-H-I-U-L-I-N? I have bad eyes. And I've seen a solo Sobek as well, but the problem is that you're going to fall behind against certain gods like Wukong, who can distance themselves while farming. I guess it'll work as a counter pick, but as a main pick, it wouldn't do so good. The fact that you HAVE to kill to play well is a huge detriment to its viability. (That said, power Sobek is hilarious. His ultimate is the trolliest thing ever.)

- first thing for hirez to do is make sure the roles of gods are clearly defined. I dont see much difference between a bruiser a tank and a guardian. For new players its hard to identify and is confusing. In smite's god layouts, tank word is never used dont know why?

- they must modify base stats of gods slightly to make the classification a bit more clear. Irrespective of the item build, a tank should be tank.

- their is a big inconsistency in wave clearance potential for different tanks. Ymir is too strong at wave clearance than any other tank. while Ares is the worst. Also Bacchus is very poor at wave clear so is Sobek and Geb . M never in favor of making wave clearance an item dependent thing like it has become. Use HoG or you are doomed and cant level up fast.

- the huge swords, axes and other weapons must be effective enough against minions and won't be just show pieces.

because tanks and guardians are the same.

C-H-I-U-L-I-N. I got the name from a korean video game. Thought it sounded cool and it stuck. Anyways, I know exactly what you mean. If picked against the right gods, he can be effective. So it can be a useful choice in league. That funny **** keeps me going though. xD

i know your not saying they should replace them but it's that they will if they get the full viablity by making it so easy for them.

ymir, geb only have to build damage boots and can clear waves with it, after that they build full tank. thats no different from them building midas in duo then going full tank.

sobek can even do it from the start. just with mystical mark.

flexibiblity for one role in smite is known to kill the other. if you put tanks with good wave clear as a possiblity in smite then they will out class warriors because they will become the magical ecwivalant to them. and because of there scaling they will be more effective at it and because of their superior natural tankyness.

so warriors would be come supports and we will have tank wukongs and tank guan's and maybe tank chaac and it will be there only role because tanks will out class them.

maybe sun wukong would still be able to solo lane and maybe chaac and a very maybe vamana, but they would get it redicoulessly diffucult and would have a hard time.

tyr, guan yu, hercules and odin would be heavely out classed. just getting stunned, chain cc'd out of there skills.

all gods in solo lane needs some help in the beggining. i never said tanks didn't.