Razemage Tier List

I don't know if raze has changed something. But where AMC is standing now (tier 3) is a good place IMO.

AMC isn't over art (that's why I find that they should be in the same tier as they are now), but he definitely is better than cupid or xbal.
this is mainly because of his wave clear. cupid and xbal are terrible at clearing waves.
Also is AMC over xbal because of his ultimate (equal to cupid but in some way also over cupids ult because damage also a cripple and reduced cooldown to ultra short cooldown)being a lot better for dueling and damage.

Hel is not a good support period end of story. Just because you can doesn't mean its a good idea. Guan Yu can support it doesn't make it a bright idea.

And no, Ymir with a ADC will probably wreck Hel with a Adc.

No I am not underrating hel, hel is good in solo and that's about it with the new buff, alright in mid but not that best.

Telling me I am underestimating her as support would BE CORRECT because she sucks in support role.

Good job she can clease and heal, that doesn't make you a good support.

Do you think Hel is going to be putting her *** on the front lines like a Sylvanus, Ymir, Athena, ***bha? No, because Hel will get strait up wrecked and merked if she even gets close to any gods like Mercury, Hercules, Serqet, Janus, ect.

Those other tanks can do their job and be on the front lines and support their team as a true support, not like hel who hides and heals her team from a distance trying to cleanse someone already hit with CC.

That is not a good support.

What can she do?

Deal Damage
Cleanse
Heal

She has no CC, No peal, no tankiness, she can't sit on the front lines or she will get picked off and merked, she can't do anything besides hide within her team to heal and cleanse them.

Why pick a hel when I can pick geb, cleanse you AND give you a BIG *** SHIELD that takes massive damage, along with Geb who can tank damage, CC and entire team, disrupt them.

Hel is strait garbage as support compared to what a God like Geb and Athena can do.

***bha even merks hel in support, and so does Ymir.

Who cares about your cleanse anyways when you can't use it on yourself while your getting focused and killed before you can even support your team.

Ymir will just freeze hel and then she will die by focused damage and you will wonder why you had that scrub as support.

Geb will just blink ULt her and she and her team is gone.

Are you going to cleanse your entire team? Doubt it.

Athena will just dash then taunt hel, while you are taunted, the Assasins will pick you off before you even get a chance to support your team.

***bha will just dash in, ult you, stun you, stun you again with his 2, ect. You'll be stunned for a long *** time before you can do anything.

What can Hel do compared to these supports????

How is Hel going to do what they can do???

She is going to be doing **** besides hiding WITHIN her team, moving around WITHIN her team, healing them when they are BEING ATTACKED, and only cleansing them and HOPEFULY they don't die before they get uncleansed.

So basically she can't do ****.

Is she going to tank? = Hell no
Is she going to be in front of her team standing before mercury/serqet/Rama/Athena ect? = Hell no
Is she going to CC anyone ? = Hell no
Is she going to save anyone who is CC'd ? = Hell no

Her cleanse doesn't do much, it just gets you out of CC, it doesn't stop the damage coming towards your face one the CC has been applied even if you cleanse them out as fast as you can.

Heal is only a good healer and good damager, she is not a great support.

OMG!!! No wonder nobody plays her as support, news flash, probably because she gets rofl stomped for all the reasons I listed.

Sylvanus = CC entire team with probably one of the best CC ults in the game, can't beads it, hits entire team, CC's entire team, can grab single targers with hard CC, can stun targets, can heal his team as well although weaker. Is MUCH MUCH MUCH more tanky than hel ever wishes to be.

Ymir = Freeze CC multiple targets, 2 them for slow CC and good damage, ult entire team if they get trapped in it. Wall of paths, wall to trap, wall them in more CC, wall off their escapes, is the most Tanky mofo in the game next to Cabrakan following.

***bha = Does good damage for a tank, Stun AOE which last like 2 seconds or more and can hit multiple gods, his 2 applies another CC root which is like 5 seconds of CC combined, his ult takes you out of battle and does enough damage to kill Gods, so ***bha has the ability to CC gods for like 8 seconds strait or more and is tanky with decent damage.

Again what the **** is hel compared to these supports???

Hel = Does good damage, has a Good heal. THE END

Squishy as ****, no escapes, can't tank unless built for it and still will be less tanky then a true tank, can't CC, can't save team mates unless they survive burst to reheal them.

I am not underestimating hel as a support, SHE IS BAD PEROID as a support compared to a real support.

You are too much of a D rider of Hel I assume, she is good in solo and even in solo is not the best of the best, just more annoying. Easy to gank, ect.

In support she is worst than solo.

Lets take VOTES

+1 if you think hel is not good support compared to other supports
+1 if you think hel is a good support compared to other supports.

I PUT a +1 to her being NOT a good support compared to every other support God.

When you have hel being feared as a support you let me know when.
When Hel is being picked up in tournies as a good support you let me know
When anyone ever wants Hel as support over Ymir, please let me know.

I have yet to see any pro games take hel serious as a support.

You want to know what a match with Hel support on your team would look like?

It would look like seeing hel camp inside her team and only heal and try to throw damage out. Other than that she ain't doing **** to CC or save, she is just gonna camp within her team while the enemy Support is CC and ****ing over your team with annoying tankiness and taunts.

The basic idea of Smite is

Pros don't focus the tanks and supports like Geb, ***bha, Ymir, ect.

Pick Hel as support and you will STILL be focused.

Being support Hel doesn't mean anything, your still hel and you will always be focused by any team with a brain, yes you will die quickly too.

No good players focus a Geb, Ymir, ect.

Good Players don't care if your solo hel, mid hel, or support hel.

Hel is hel and you really ain't making anyone NOT focus you just because you think she can support. You'll die before you can even support anything.

Its very simple the proof is very clear.

True supports don't get focused because only noobs focus the support

Being that if you pick Hel your getting focused shows she is not a true support.

If people will still focus you it means your weak as **** , wonder why, oh because your hel and your not a tank.

If I am underestimating that can be changed very quickly, all I have to do is see Hel's in support role out beat a team with a true tank like Ymir, ***bha, Athena, Geb, Sylvanus, ect, then I will say she can support.

Until then I won't believe it.

Dude it's not "Hel is bad end of story" just because you say it is, like holy **** that's so much hubris.

She has a slow, btw, which reduces magical protections.

She doesn't need tankiness she's a mage you lugnut. You would take her as a support mage while you have a warrior or guardian jungle or solo. Like there's so much room for tanks and warriors in the meta, you don't NEED a guardian support, it's just most common.

Like I can't even argue against what you said because there's so much unrelated fluff I can't even start. You talk about other supports, and I can't disagree because it's unrelated but correct, but you almost completely ignored actual Hel.

If you're trying to play Hel as a tank, you're GOING to be wrong. She's no more a tank than if you took Ra or Aphrodite support.

And surprisingly, if the team focuses the support, usually the mage or adc will rot your team. That's how focusing works.


Like that's all I can say. You're for some reason assuming Hel is trying to be a tank. She's not. She heals her team, cleanses CC, slows you, and then rots your team. That's her role.

You should also try not to follow the argument style you do. It's called Non Sequitur argument, in which you base arguments on previous statements that have no guaranteed foundation, or simply form an argument with non-proven steps. You can't say something is "end of story" without providing a foundation for it that addresses no counterarguments.

Like this *can* be an opinion based thing but saying hel is absolute **** isn't an opinion it's just misguided and close minded. If you said she's worse, fine, I can agree. Saying she has 0 place there is completely ridiculous.

Out of the 100's of pro games and tournaments, how many picked hel support? I'd love to know, You'll be lucky if you find 2 videos and that is pushing it, I don't even think you will find one.

But enough of that.

We settle this the easy way.

EVERYONE VOTE NOW

+ 1 if you agree with me
+ 1 if you agree with Raven

I want everyone else on this forum to chime in and place their votes, we do this the old fashion way so I can see what everyone thinks about this.

Don't reply anything raven please, let the other members come and vote.

You said what you have to say about Hel support and I did.

Now since we are both +1 we wait for the rest of the forum to vote and say why they voted that way.

NOW VOTE

I'm going to go with Raven. Simply because Hel brings infinite sustain and stupid high damage into the lane. Mix that with a guardian jungler and you make up for the lack of a true support. I've played her as support a few times, it's fairly efficient.

Now I'm not saying it's the best, but it can work.

Also, Loki support is the most overpowered **** in the game. #tryit
Seriously, my ADC has 5+ kills by the end of the laning phase everytime. xD

I'm going to have to disagree with you Ravenbae. Hel support can be used nicely but in a real scenario with a duo lane that knows what they're doing, 9 times out of 10, you'll lose the lane.

Even in this meta where you pretty much require a tank or physical bruiser, early game the support can be easily killed by simple lane dominance. I've noticed that hunters melt through guardian's protections like cheese early on since a lot of their defense is from scalings and itemizations. A support to die as first blood isn't that uncommon as you'd think.

Now put Hel in that scenario. Even with heals, the only way you'd be able to do okay in lane is if Hel takes blue. Hunters will be able to do a heli lot of damage to you from a nicely ranged safe distance as well as the occasional peel from their support. With a Hel support, the adc most likely will take more time to get to their late game potential.

Now given you have a team comp ready like Chiulin suggested, I'm confident you can dominate until you get to high ranked leagues where they may know how to counter effectively. Per se Hel support and Ymir jungle. Cool. But you'll have to make sure you have a physical solo as well.

Going to go with Raven, and i must say that she deserved her place right now, lower tier 2 (note : the tier also placed in order from left to right)

Gonna have to give it a split vote

To support Raven, she has a powerful heal mid game and having her in duo lane is the damage equivalent of 2 adcs. Not to mention she has 3 buffs and 2 debuffs. With her, your team also has the potential for getting objectives faster.

To support Icen, she has incredibly poor initiation. So poor, in fact, that a tanking Cabrakan can easily punish that mistake. Peeling with her is an incredibly stupid idea. Her lack of mobility and CC also doesn't give her a lot of options on how she could save both herself and her teammate(s).

Gotta go with Raventhor here, although I do see your point ICEN.