I guess we just disagree. I really don't think people play selfish and toxic because of ignorance. Some may, but my opinion is that the majority would just rather win on an individual level rather than a team level. Carrying in this game is hard. If you can feel good about going 11/8 in a loss, that's easy. If you go from game to game trying to win every time, you're gonna get frustrated. If you're just trying to rack up kills, you can probably succeed more than you fail.
People don't instalock assassins and rage quit over kills because they don't know that isn't the best thing to get the team a win, they do it because they don't care. Winning the game isn't their motivation.
It's no secret that there are a lot of bad players who are bad for reasons not related to skill. There's not one universal reason, all theories probably have some merit. I'll just stick with my 'they're mostly *******s' theory.
Kinda see both sides of this argument.
There's ignorance and there's selfishness, and saying only one or the other is the inherent cause is ignorant in itself.
Ignorance: People assume winning their lane will win them the game, or at the least, that it's not their fault. "I went 4-1 in my lane and got the tower before they did. I didn't do bad, so our loss was because other people were bad."
Mr Poseidon, as a highly mobile mage, did you roam and gank other lanes, leading to your other lanes being snowballed? Did you actually commit to a teamfight even if it meant death to win the objective? K/D or winning lane doesn't mean you weren't a cause to the loss.
Selfishness: Very straightforward. People don't care about the gamemode, they want to do well and have fun pubstomping. These people will rarely ever roll tanks or supports, or if they do, will do so just for the sake of raging at those who are doing badly, because they're "doing their job." These people, when on assassins, carries, or mages, will seek to get the last hit on a kill, or never engage if it wouldn't actively result in a kill, SOLELY because they want to have fun and pad their k/d, no matter the win or loss.
Some people don't know better, some do and don't care. It is what it is. The latter are unredeemable; it's a mindframe issue and it won't change. The former are still 'toxic' but can be saved. Pointing out they didn't help can, and probably will, merit a hostile response or a bland "I won my lane, it's not my fault." But staying dedicated, *friendly*, and informative, may make them realize how to turn their natural skill in gaining an advantage in lane into snowballing the entire team.
Kinda see both sides of this argument.
There's ignorance and there's selfishness, and saying only one or the other is the inherent cause is ignorant in itself.
Ignorance: People assume winning their lane will win them the game, or at the least, that it's not their fault. "I went 4-1 in my lane and got the tower before they did. I didn't do bad, so our loss was because other people were bad."
Mr Poseidon, as a highly mobile mage, did you roam and gank other lanes, leading to your other lanes being snowballed? Did you actually commit to a teamfight even if it meant death to win the objective? K/D or winning lane doesn't mean you weren't a cause to the loss.
Selfishness: Very straightforward. People don't care about the gamemode, they want to do well and have fun pubstomping. These people will rarely ever roll tanks or supports, or if they do, will do so just for the sake of raging at those who are doing badly, because they're "doing their job." These people, when on assassins, carries, or mages, will seek to get the last hit on a kill, or never engage if it wouldn't actively result in a kill, SOLELY because they want to have fun and pad their k/d, no matter the win or loss.
Some people don't know better, some do and don't care. It is what it is. The latter are unredeemable; it's a mindframe issue and it won't change. The former are still 'toxic' but can be saved. Pointing out they didn't help can, and probably will, merit a hostile response or a bland "I won my lane, it's not my fault." But staying dedicated, *friendly*, and informative, may make them realize how to turn their natural skill in gaining an advantage in lane into snowballing the entire team.
I definitely fall in that ignorance category, but I'm not ignorant about it. I have a very focused mentality as a tank in the solo lane. My priorities are as such:
1) Survive
2) don't get Pushed
3) Kills (tower and player)
4) Objectives
5) my team
Keep in mind this is the laning stage. Later on, there is a huge priority shift where team and Objectives are pushed to 2 and 3. Survival even sometimes comes in at lowest priority rank, and I will die to save two team mates so they can hold the inevitable push.
I simply can't afford to be distracted in the laning phase, because no matter how tanky I am it usually isn't enough if I am going to get ganked. Especially early to mid laning phase. If someone needs help, I expect our jungler to help them, and sometimes I will even point it out to them if they aren't doing it. However, it is my own personal belief that doing well in your lane does help you win the game, because you aren't feeding the enemy. I believe if everyone does at least an even game in their lane, then at least you aren't giving then enemy an edge.
That being said, I'm not in any way angry that I am an "ignorant" player, since I'm by no means a master of the game. Maybe my priorities are a bit backwards, maybe I'm just not a team player.
I am addicted to kills. I want to kill people in real life. I play First Person Shooters everyday. I am going to blow up an elementary school and kill everyone. That is my plan. #CatchMeNSA
@Creationism
That's actually completely fine in the early game. If you're in solo lane and your duo lane dies, that was in no way your fault or problem whatsoever. The first ~2/3 of laning phase should be completely self-reliant. At the last third, then roaming becomes a possibility without losing levels or too much gold. And since you're a tank, your ganks probably wouldn't do much anyway, save solely if you're maybe Athena.
So no, that's fine. Your late game shift in mentality is 100% on-target.
My smite is broken, so this may be my last post, but I have to agree with you on most aspects. People seem to love getting kills and assists are treated as not counting. To be honest, it depends on what god I'm playing. For example, I main with Kali, Guan Yu and Anubis right now. Kali has no straight up CC yet some of the biggest focused damage in the game, so getting kills with her is quite a priority to making her scary lategame, and her 2 makes it easy to get said kills. Anubis is, like kali, good at getting hyperfed but unlike Kali has a hard CC, making it possible for him to support his team by saving their lives or getting them kills. Finally, guan yu is an aggressive tank, able to get kills and assists equally well. So to sumarize, it depends on what god I'm playing.
Yeah I've certainly noticed these trends. Its fun playing 3v3 jousts where two people insta lock assassins at the same time then think the person that lost the game for them is the one guy who didn't insta lock a assassin. I've also noticed large amounts of hate directed my way when I die to save someone. People complain about my leaping into a lot of enemies*as someone like odin for example* slowing them all and then dieing to let 1 or more allies with far more damage potential get away alive. Though part of it might be those 1/10th of their life left allies going 'hey odin jumped in I'm going to turn around and fight as well.' But in general sometimes my attempts to try and be a team player or play to an objective get derision while the assassin who did nothing all game but pick off single people and avoid team fights feels he did the best job because he has a good K/D due to only fighting enemies on a 1v1 basis and only if they are low defense low health gods.
As far as I can tell its just the natural evolution of the moba mindset into smite. Since people can't see everything happening, they don't have a top down vision, and their sight is deliberately limited yet they still want to blame their allies in something they latch onto the K/D and decide so long as that's good on them they are above approach.
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