Neith Guide Finished

I don't see how I got them backwards, you didn't state anything contrary to how I used them. Anyway, I think we just have differing opinions, because despite her not requiring much advanced knowledge, that knowledge is extraordinarily useful in determining separation from a good one and a great one. We've really laid out what we feel about it, I just find the idea that she barely has a skill ceiling at all, fallacious. She's definitely more complicated than an Apollo, whose sole role is to land a lot of AAs and be ready to dash-mesmerize or dash away, and I find her skill ceiling around on-par with Anhur, with differences in how that's applied.

And I hope I'm not coming off as insulting you or anything, like I'm sure you know (as you've said) what floor vs ceiling was, it was just a way to start my conversation. You don't get to veteran by having horrible or unfactual opinions (although some former veterans seemed to have evolved into that), and it's definitely respected.

I am fully aware of the definition of a skill floor vs. a skill ceiling, and I got the feeling you had them completely backwards. Neith is a very easy god to pick up, and there honestly isn't too much advanced knowledge you need to realize her full potential.

There is a reason most players ignore using the attack speed debuff on her Unravel: the skill has a massive delay before you can attack, and doesn't inflict much damage in the first place. It's only usable as an opening, and that's it.

Zoning lanes with weaves becomes common knowledge at Level 30. Almost every Neith I meet in Conquest knows how to do this.

The map awareness is about the only thing I would consider high-skill regarding Neith. It helps to have a team who can call for ult snipes to set up kills, or be playing in a premade.

Honestly, I find situation control is nowhere near as big a deal as micromanagement and position control. If you can actually successfully chain together moves that demand not just good accuracy but also quick timing, that makes a bigger difference than simply knowing how to control a situation. Knowing proper positioning is also a huge factor in god effectiveness too: He Bo is a perfect example of both cases, and when you master both his skill chaining and properly positioning him, everyone will fear you... while an average He Bo probably just dies as often as he score a kill.

Neith doesn't demand micromanagement, nor does she require much care in positioning. The advanced knowledge required to master her is rather minimal. Thus, I deem her low skillcap.

If you noticed, my good sir, I said arguing that her skill ceiling is higher than Anhur's is arguable at best. I said hers was higher than Apollo's.

Anyway, a skill ceiling compared to a skill floor is how hard it is to master a god, not use it effectively. Learning how to master her AS debuff (which almost no one seems to realize exists) as well as handling map awareness at all times with her ult, and learning to perfectly master lane control with broken weaves, is a very difficult thing to handle.

Anhur, meanwhile, has to know how to utilize his jump's knockback to reposition the enemy perfectly, and his pillar impale is by no means always an easy thing to land. And no matter how well you land auto attacks, landing even a good portion of his ult on the right target is by no means easy.

Neith requires more map and situational control, while Anhur demands a positional and very micromanagement style control. They have separate styles of skill ceiling that demand different playstyles altogether. It's like apples and oranges - both fruit, but you don't put oranges in an apple pie.

'Tis all. But I think people can often miss just how much finesse a good Neith exhibits with her broken weaves and world weaver. And I don't mean the cheap-*** backflip-spirit arrow combo, I mean using it as effective zoning, and when they forget, absolutely demolishing the enemy.

High Skill Ceiling? Neith? That is a joke if I've ever heard one.

Explain what could possibly give her a higher skill ceiling than Anhur.

You trade a damage ADC for a utility one. Which in most situations, is fair, because your jungler, no matter if he's bruiser or assassin, has decent damage, your mage has insane burst, and when it comes down to it, so do you.

Think of Ashe in LoL, but give her a heal and an escape. She's suddenly the best in the game - waveclear, harass, safety, sustain, ability to carry, and CC.

She's got a low skill floor, a high skill ceiling. Apollo has a much lower skill ceiling than her (although Anhur can be argued either way).

She's very very strong, but not if you're judging by pure carry ability. She carries her team through her usefulness.

Anyway, nice guide! Loving the format and it looks like a rather solid build, despite the lack of too much penetration (15 penetration on Jotunn's is a joke), but the Qin's Sais will mitigate the tankiness of anyone who's tanky enough to matter in the first place, so I suppose it'll do. A+, and glad you finished! :D

Also, I'll leave you two to your high class veteran discussion as a lowly editor ;P

I feel the same way about Neith. Most people who claim she is overpowered probably aren't looking deep enough to realize her flaws, and immediately point out only her strengths. Yes, she is ridiculously safe, she has CC out the wazoo for a hunter, and she has sustain. She also has a rather low skill ceiling compared to gods like Anhur or Apollo who are much more effective at carrying when mastered.