Hunter Guardian Meta Is Horribly Unenjoyable

So to sum it up this is you guys

- You will complain if hunters have blue stone early game
- When hunters sell blue stone late game for another item you will complain they are a hunter

You can't win can you?

if you can win tell me how, because it seems that with or without blue stone your still gonna complain about hunters lol.

^ Tell me I'm wrong

The real question is, if the game was perfect would people still find something to complain about?
Thea answer is yes

So if people will always find something to complain about how do you know when the game is balanced if people always find something to complain about?

^ That is a legit question feel free to answer it anyone

Um. I think I'm going to let Sub take this one whenever he gets back. I'll check back tomorrow morning and see if the war has died down.

Simply put, mage ADCs don't get damage buff, which makes them inherently weaker to hunters. Bluestone Pendant makes Death's Toll redundant and nonviable. Having unlimited mana ON A HUNTER which is a class with two weaknesses: low health/protections and MANA PROBLEMS, is not balanced. And come on. Meditation? Totally different. Even that isn't constant mana. It's a burst of mana every 120 seconds.

Seriously, read your item stats.

Edit: The hunter class does need changes. Crit needs to be nerfed and everything we've said before. But the laning phase is what makes or breaks a hunter, and hunters have a free pass in lane right now, with the items available. Do you understand how that could be broken?

See, meditation is in the game but you say "cmon" calling it a noob item because people think pros should "know how to keep mana".

My point exactly, no matter what items are in to solve your problem of a mana issue you will still complain saying something like oh but its garabge because now I waste a item slot!!!

Well thats why you have choices, nobody forced you to buy meditation, if you don't want it as an active "don't buy it", but don't complain if your a mage trying to use an excuse like "I have no mana now :( "

#1 - They can clear waves so fast they can usually back and come back in time
#2 - Meditation solves your problem if you have no mana

Its simple, Ra ult the wave, go back to base, full mana is back, go back in lane.....

What is hard about that>?

Um. You do realize that:
a) Meditation wastes an active slot on a hunter, which is what we're talking about, a class that needs both Greater Sprint and Greater Purification simply for survival
b) Wasting an ult on the wave is a bad play
c) Backing can sometimes put you at risk to losing your towers or objectives, which is more important than kills

We're not complaining about Bluestone Pendant because we have issues managing mana and this item puts everyone on level footing; this isn't a selfish rant about the meta and how much we hate it, the meta IS BROKEN. Plain and simple. Hunters are better than every other class on the game SIMPLY BASED ON STATS. We're not observing every single casual match and saying that unanimously hunters crush everyone, but in the current professional and ranked meta, this is true. The 2hunter 3guardian team comp beats every other team comp except some jank that AFK threw together today specifically for the purpose of shutting down Bluestone Pendant hunters. Do you get that? Pros used picks specifically to counter the effect of an item in the laning phase! Do you understand how inherently broken that means the meta is? Because if you don't, then this conversation is pointless and we should probably transition to how to change it. If the problem is invisible, you won't see the solution.

You guys are not consistent that is the problem.

You can say something like "Us guys" say crit is the problem but that is no what I seen.

Here is a list of hunter problems that people say

- The class of hunter is broken
- Just nerf their escapes
- They should not have blue stone
- Its the crit items that make them OP
- Its the life steal that makes them OP
- Its both that makes them OP
- Everything is OP
- They clear to fast, just nerf their clear
- They can go to any role, nerf that!!!

Look, nobody even has a clue what they are talking about, because if everyone's idea of what is wrong with hunters was actually true they would be so nerfed they would be complete *** and garbage based on the list of problems people say about hunters.

Look at that list, people on this very site will probably not even agree, on reddit its ****ing open season, nobody is consistant.

This is why we as a community do not balance ****

Nobody knows what they are talking about for the most part, the reason is clear, if everyone knew what they were talking about then then hunters will become **** if you nerfed every single thing I listed.

People disagree the items are the problem
People disagree hunters as a class are broken
People disagree blue stone is broken
People disagree life steal is broken
People disagree their escapes is broken
People disagree their clear is broken
People disagree since they can go into another role they are broken.

Nobody on reddit can even come up with something people agree on let alone prove its broken.

The only thing people can keep saying is "something needs to be done about hunters"

but in terms of "what" needs to be done

NOBODY can agree on **** because people have 200 different opinions on what is wrong with hunters.

Again, this is why we don't work for Hi-Rez and this is why community does not balance ****

If we balanced hunters based on every complaint then lets take a look at our hunters now

The new hunters

- Nerfed wave clear
- Nerfed life steal
- Nerfed crit
- Nerfed roles
- Nerfed escapes
- Nerfed items

**** it, just delete them out of the game!!!!

Seriously, that is what happens to hunters if everyone is right.

Did you just say wasting a ult on a wave is a bad play???

Lol, my last game Anhur would like a chat with you where I 1v2'd a Medusa and Ymir and kept using my Ult to clear the wave.

Its not a bad play, its called having a brain. I was 1v3ing my lane because Nemesis kept trying to tower dive so I was facing Ymir, Nemesis and Medusa all of them wanted to get under my tower so bad so they pushed the wave up hard *** hell.

Guess what I am forced to do? Ult the wave so they can't dive me.

If you think thats a bad play maybe you think its smarter to just let the wave come under tower and then I guess I will be forced to fight a 1v3 tower dive or run back and watch my tower get taken.

I ult the waves all the time when its smart too.

Alright. I should be specific. Zilby, Sub (correct me if I'm wrong about your opinion, Sub), and I believe that these are the key issues with hunters.
- Unlimited mana on a starter item
- Transitions into a late game powerhouse unmatched by any other god in the current meta with the current viable items
- Critical damage is the only viable build, compared to other builds like S1's unicorn
We don't want to nerf them into oblivion, they should have their place. Namely, a late game damage source that is fragile, vulnerable in the laning phase, has a weak mana pool, and multiple viable builds to counter different situations. Their escapes are fine. Their wave clear (for the most part, even though I want Apollo's full clear back) is fine. Lifesteal is fine, I actually really like the changes to the stacking on Devourer's Gauntlet. Hunters should not be able to play 3 roles. They were a class built for the ADC role, and they should stay there. It's more fun that way.

Edit: you said ult the wave just to go back and get mana. Of course there are situations and gods where ulting the wave is a good decision. It's not a blanket statement. I was replying to the situation you brought up.

Now what happens when 40 other people tell Hi-Rez, no its the wave clear that is wrong!!! Then 40 other people will say, no its the life steal that is OP!!!

If you go on reddit "life steal" is the new bandwagon everyone is riding on. I go on reddit alot and this is how it basically went

- First it was just people complaining Hunters are Op because they can do almost any role
- That quickly changed to crit was the op items
- some people tried to argue that by saying it was just the wave clear that was op

Now the new bandwagon is that life steal is OP, every thread on reddit that deals with hunters you will have like 30 people in the comments saying life steal is what makes them op.

How can Hi-Rez know who to believe when the problem changes ever day?

That is why you have to trust Hi-Rez to balance them and not based on what someone just thinks like me, Hi-Rez work on the game and they know the actual numbers in detail more than everyone else.

The only real problem to me was that Hi-rez kept releasing OP Gods then having to nerf them later, but from what I see people accept the nerfs to mostly every God as a good balance besides a select few.

Want to point out one thing

Taking away blue stone would do nothing to their late game power, hunters are still going to wreck people late game and blue stone makes no difference since blue stone is sold late game anyways.

Okay well you may say, but it gives them a good start... a good start against who though?

If its hunter + supp Vs hunter + Supp they have no good start, its just a even start.

If you take blue stone out the game its still going to be a even start, no mana and no mana..

It doesn't matter either way, all your doing is changing how the lane is played

With Blue stone
- more skills
- in lane longer without having to back super soon
- more likely a fight will happen in Dou Lane
- Less camping because of the fact more mana to do stuff

Without Blue stone
- less skills
- will back once out of mana ASAP
- most likely will be more campy because nobody will have mana to do stuff
- will camp because of no mana

Its going to be fair either way with or without blue stone

I'd rather have a less camp and go back match and more of a who is better with their god match with the skills the god has and support comp.

Again facing mages is a different story just in case someone says "oh but mages can't get blue stone in mid facing a hunter who can get blue stone!"\

First of all, mages clear faster than most hunters, Junglers help out with mid clear at certain parts of the game and usually junglers will keep your mid lane safe if you back.

Blue stone does not matter much in mid when you have a good team, the mage can easily clear a wave and back and even if he couldn't clear the wave, the jungler will usually gaurd mid until the mage returns.

Either way a hunter in mid will have to go back, its smart to go back when you can finish a item or after clearing a wave to get mana back. If the hunter stays mid its still going to be even

I'm not on r/Smite as much, so thanks for bringing that up, but we're not responsible for balancing. HiRez design doesn't pop into this forum and look at what we're saying for advice. They are paid for their opinions on the subject. There's a reason the title of this forum is "Hunter Guardian Meta is Horribly Unenjoyable" and not "HIREZ PLS FIX THIS". HiRez doesn't go on Smitefire. HiRez doesn't go on Reddit for our opinions. They make Google Forms on specific subjects for the community's advice on what to change.

Lifesteal for me is fair.

Taking away Bluestone Pendant would not change their late game power, true, but it would drastically affect their ability to get there. Without consistent mana, hunters are more vulnerable to ganks and rotations; S1 punished greedy plays and use of mana, so past level 10, hunters would almost exclusively use auto attacks to clear. A return to a similar playstyle would be better than "I can clear and escape and kill all of you because of my unlimited mana uwu".

I'm referring to mages as ADCs, not hunters in mid. Hunters shouldn't have clear that rivals mages, which, to be clear, at least 3 hunters do ( Ah Muzen Cab, Neith, and Ullr), true, but that's not the point. Mages in the ADC role, such as Freya, Chronos, Vulcan, Zeus, and Poseidon, have more mana issues than hunters because of the existence of Bluestone Pendant on the physical item tree and the lack thereof on the magical item tree. In the hands of all except Snoopy and Allied, magical ADCs are weak and vulnerable, which is exactly how hunters should be!

I will just end it on that note because that is all my opinion and its probably going to stay that way.

To sum up myself, I never had a problem facing hunters, therefor I never seen anything unbalanced or screaming OP in my face.

How I see it is like this : If I cannot even tell its OP then its most likely not OP

being that I never had problems with hunters, I never seen them as OP even if they are strong late game, when I see a hunter the only thing I think is "Just don't eat 4 basic attacks and know when to focus them"

I fear junglers more than hunters and I'm not joking. I can care less about that Anhur in my lane, I just want to know where the F that Hun Batz is lurking in the jungle.

Hunters are not that hard to kill (in a team fight, they can be somewhat hard to kill in lane when they escape away), I have killed a ton of hunters with different gods and in different roles, I have died to Ymir jungle before as a hunter, I have died to other hunters, I have died to Hun Batz ganking me, I have died to a Fenrir late game <---- them pro fenrirs

The most I could ever say is hunters are strong, but I am not confident enough to say their class is just strait up OP.

When facing a bellona she screamed OP OP OP OP!!! Before the nerf.

When facing Anhur, Apollo, Hou Yi, Artemis, Neith, none of them ever screamed OP OP OP!!!

None of them even looked a little bit OP to me, I just look at them like, yea they do alot of damage with basic attacks, kewl, I need to watch out for them.

PS: that is your opinion and this was mine, I am explaining why I don't see them as OP and never really have.

Of course that can change on two notes
- I could just suddenly realize something I didn't before
- Since I play on Xbox now we are 1-2 patches behind so I am playing like a month in a half behind but just assume that everything is probably the same.

Correct me if I am wrong even though Xbox is like a patch or two behind, I have seen nothing that different and most everything is the same so my opinion would still be valid.