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It's Tick-Tock time! | Sobek 3.25 In-Depth Conquest Guide

January 12, 2017 by Bernardozomer
Comments: 51    |    Views: 14200    |   


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nanoyam (12) | January 11, 2017 2:04am
Hey,

I came to give you a visit like I promised :) I like your guide, it’s clear and simple and overall well done. Definitely deserves an upvote!

But cause I also want to help guidemakers to improve, I think I have few tips for you.
You describe your guide as an in-depth guide, and I do agree you have everything that a full guide needs. However I feel you could have more explanations. More tips and tricks to share :P

Let’s start with your skills section. You have described everything, but something you could add is those tips. For example you said that Blessing of the Nile may not be the best passive in the game, but it still helps you in teamfights. Maybe you could add a tip when is the best time to take advantage of this. Should Sobek players flee or save an ability to use when they’re at their most vulnerable state. With long cooldowns and a short lasting passive proc should mean more carefully used ability rotation in fights. Maybe you could open this more in your combo section. Also thinks to consider mentioning, could Charge Prey be used to escape too, and when? Is there moments when Tail Whip should be saved? For example, canceling ults or to prevent enemies escaping. Using it instantly after reaching enemies may cause you to push enemies under their tower and so on preventing your team (especially melee) to attack them. Sickening Strike could play a huge role when enemies have sustainable healer (e.g. Hel). Using this ability the moment before Hel uses Repulse / Inspire can help your team to nuke them down.
Combos: As I mentioned in the skill section, I think you could expand this chapter a bit (even in spoiler) to open the idea behind these combos.

Items: In an In-depth guide, you could describe some items choices like why something is better than the other. So people know why this exact item is better and why they should not and go build some random items. Also something you could consider, is there any item combinations that are just must for Sobek or is there something that has no use without other? On the relics section, you could add some tips especially in support role, there is some relics that could work as a game changer for your ADC. (I’m thinking about Curse + Blink)
Warding: Great! Most of the support guides just lack this information, I’m happy to find this in here ;)

Gameplay: In the support explanation, I’m kinda missing the part where you tell how to cooperate with your ADC. You could also add some info about roaming and ganking other lanes.

Matchups: Maybe something to consider: How to deal with these bastards. Athena may counter Sobek but what should you do when you just simply get in this situation? Is there counter builds?

And finally, I don’t mean that your guide is bad, not at all. I think you’re guide deserves its place in here. I’m just stuck with that little word in your title “In-depth” and that’s why I gave you these ideas to consider. And remember that these are just my ideas and you do not need to do exactly as I say. I also know I had some no-brainer ideas in here, but for a guide to be considered In-depth it may require putting some self-evident content in there.

And yet, cause this message isn’t long enough xD Maybe add something more in your Introduction. Who are you and what’s your playstyle, what you want us to know about you.
But hey, you’ve done well. And for me it seems your very eager to learn and improve. Points for that too.


Note: I did not read all your comments, so sorry about it.
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Bernardozomer (2) | January 11, 2017 6:34am
Hi Nano, thanks for reviewing.

I agree with everything you said. I really forgot to mention that Charge Prey is Sobek's escape and initiate, so it should be used and aimed carefully. I will certainly add more details like this to the abilities section.

I usually struggle with explaining combos (even more when the god kit has one or more abilities that do so many things, like Sickening Strike) and I will probably add a "Further Information Spoiler" to help people to fully understand the god's skills.

As you mat have seen, I don't like "Core" Items. One of the main reasons I decided to start playing support (I play them most of the time) was because I had to learn how to build and counter-build and the support niche is certainly the best for it. My guides always include a ton of items and explaining all them is not an easy task, but I will see what I can improve in that section.

I'm glad to see that you liked my warding section! I made this image myself (I had to make an Imgur account to upload my own images...), and I wouldn't bother if other people used it (as long as they credit me, of course), so if you think it would improve your guide to create a guide, feel free to use it (There is only one problem that, when S4 arrives, I will probably have to change it. Damn Oracles.).

I will certainly add more information on the Gameplay section. I try to keep it simple and self-explainatory, but more tips and tricks never hurts.

The matchups section is by far the most polemic and hard to make of this guide. It have been a lot of discussion (most of them regarding Athena...), and them have been helping me to better understand it. I will add more information to it after I improve the other sections.

The Introduction section is still pretty much like the on from Zilby's template, I haven't changed it much. But yeah, maybe I will change it a bit on the next update.

My guide has its flaws (I'm not a robot after all!), but I'm happy with it, as it has been in the Top 1 of the front page (I don't even know how guides appear there, but ok) for like 2-3 months I think? But that doesn't mean I won't keep updating and improving it (Season 4 will give me a hard time). This is actually my second guide, that came quickly after I finished polishing my Ymir one (It still needs a lot of polishing, so I wouldn't recommend a review of it by now... only if you reeealy want to.) I'm almost certain that it contains some flaws and typos here and there...

And yes, I'm very eager/anxious for everything.

See ya later!

+Rep for you!
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nanoyam (12) | January 12, 2017 12:24am
I'm glad If my review helped you even a bit ;) But I still have few tips to share.

As you mentioned, matchups can be hard to explain and it may become a bigger project than you ever imagined. However, if you want to keep thit section very simple you could maybe just add 1 tip for each matchup. Like counter item, relic or a simple gameplay tip.
For example against Athena your most important thing is positioning. Never let Athena taunt you under tower, and in case she misses her taunt use it as advantage.

And what comes to your warding image, I'm definitely interested about the idea, but I don't (yet!) have any place to put it in. If you're making a new one for season 4 I could think adding an image section to my guide where people could lend some images. And of course you get a credit from your work! PM me if you do create an updated one, and we'll see what I can do with it.

Keep working with your guide/guides ;)
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Bernardozomer (2) | December 20, 2016 5:42am
Added Solo build!

Not only this, but I made a lot of tweaks regarding all the feedback I received. Don't forget to check it out!
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DucksRock (41) | December 19, 2016 6:32am
Hey bernand!

This guide is really good, i don't have a lot of gripes with this one.

I disagree with Prism regarding Shell, Shell is not always the better pickup. in a lane where you know you don't wanna be aggressive, like against a Khepri or a Terra. Meditation is very useful in those situations where you don't wanna go all in and have a more passive lane.

Lurking In The Waters actually has a very short recovery time, so you can Charge Prey out of it almost instantly.

i agree with bran regarding Wrath. just wanted to say that Wrath is actually pretty situational on a support, if you have mages with good objective secure ( Isis, Thoth or Ra) this isnt really needed. Shell is amazing for teamfights so i almost always pick that up.

I don't like the Gem of Isolation pickup or the Obsidian Shard pickup. Sobek actually benefits more from raw pen, his base damages except maybe Lurking In The Waters don't warrant the Obsidian Shard pickup. Gem of Isolation is imo pretty lackluster on supports like Sobek with crazy amounts of cc. Take this with a grain of salt, but i believe that getting a more tanky item is better.

Full cdr on Sobek is extremely useful. Charge Prey is very strong as a pickoff tool in teamfights, so you'd wanna use it as much as possible.

also, Sobek likes to rotate early for picks in mid. mention that and use that, it's a core part of his early.

other than that, pretty solid guide. 7.5/10, which is an upvote.
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Branmuffin17 (83) | December 19, 2016 10:30am
@Ducks: just an FYI...if you take a look at my various comments, you'll see that I did suggest Wrath as a 2nd relic option. Feel that in some SITUATIONAL cases it can be a good choice, and that it's worth a mention in the relic options (it was missing before).

BUT, if you also look at my response to Prism's comment, I was talking about Shell, and that I consider it a much stronger 2nd relic option...so you don't really have to "disagree" with me...
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DucksRock (41) | December 19, 2016 10:32am
Whoops! Didn't see the situational there. Sorry! will fix the comment to indicate that you did point it out and im just expanding.
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Bernardozomer (2) | December 19, 2016 9:33am
Hi, Duck(s?)! Thanks for the comment and the upvote.

I understand your complains about GoI and Obsidian Shard. I think I could trade them for other items, but I really don't know which.

I was thinking more about CDR lately, and I think Shoes of Focus are way better than Reinforced Shoes on him, at least on Conquest, so I think I will completely remove it from the build.

Assuming I bought it, then I would be with 30% CDR if with BoV. But if I had to go with BoH, then things get complicated. I think that because of this I should add Spirit Robe and maybe even Mantle of Discord, so that if there were 3+ Magical gods on the enemy team CDR wouldn't be a problem.

I understood the rotations thing, but wouldn't that early rotations be dangerous for Sobek's ADC?

Oh, and just to mention that I will be adding a Solo build soon!

+Rep for you!
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DucksRock (41) | December 19, 2016 9:55am
Well, Regarding rotations, the ADC actually likes being alone on level 5+/7+ depends on which adc you are supporting (adcs who have clear vs adcs who dont) so they can farm better. just make sure to leave them with a ward. Rotating early is actually mandatory.

Spirit Robe is an amazing item to get your cdr from. Shoes of Focus is actually an item i don't get on Sobek until late game, i get traveler's shoes and sell it later on for Shoes of Focus. to fix the mana issues, i actually rush Breastplate of Valor as a second item. it's a common thing to do, so i think you should consider it if you want full CDR.

Spirit Robe is an alternative like you've said before, Witchblade is a great item regardles because it naturally counters hunters. Mantle of Discord is a great alternative to Spirit Robe if you have some gold left.

Looking forward to your Solo build! i used to play Sobek solo all the time when it was OP in late season 2, so ii'l expect that!

Thanks for the Rep!
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ThePerfectPrism (41) | December 19, 2016 9:49am
Wow I've also upvoted the guide and I didn't get Reputation ;u; Never doing this again for u Bernardo
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ThePerfectPrism (41) | December 14, 2016 7:40pm
Since you asked for my review, I'll be extra-blunt and honest.

First of all, I don't like Reinforced Shoes on most supports, and that goes for Sobek as well. Shoes of Focus is still better on Sobek cuz he lacks mana and he already gets protections from his passive.


Wards are a big no-no early on. Ganks usually won't happen before level 5, so on your first back you start getting wards, not earlier then that. Also, ganks aren't usual on duo, so you can wait a bit more if anything.

Shell is by far the best active for a support in the game. +45 Physical AND Magical protection and a 15% dmg redux is CRAZY early game, better then Meditation, since it scales with your current health and stuff

Lurking In The Waters also recovers Mana, and that is one of the best uses for it if you're in need of it and almost killing someone, even if you know they can get away FROM the ult, you'll get back enough mana to spam all of your abilities all over again.

Athena is way more mobile and can easily win pressure over a Sobek, so it's not a tie. Khepri Abduct wins over Charge Prey, since it'll silence you and stuff, so it would be a tie if the Khepri has any idea of what he's doing.

The upper purple ward location is RARELY to be used, but the middle purple ward is the junglers/middles job. The support should focus Gold Fury and Long Lane early on, and GF and FG later on.

yeah. I won't cover anything else cuz Techno and Bran did an amazing job already.
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Bernardozomer (2) | December 15, 2016 5:07am
Hi again Prism, thanks for reviewing my guide.

I normally use Reinforced Shoes on Sobek because I'm used to tankier characters, but I do agree that he needs mana and CDR. I think I will add Shoes of Focus as a second option, so that people can choose the one they prefer.

About the Wards... you know, this has saved my life in some situations, but I do agree that they are dispensable. I would still buy them if the enemy jungler is an early-game god (such as Thanatos, because he would then be able to easily gank duo lane if I was going back to base and/or with low health/mana).

Hmmm... I don't remember where, but I remember reading that Shell wasn't a good starter relic... Still, I think Meditation helps a lot early game, and maybe Shell could help too... I will be testing this later.

I did forget to mention the mana regeneration thing.

I still think it would be a tie. Athena usually uses her dash for initiating, and after she uses it (We know why it is previsible), Sobek could easily pull her. And about Khepri, this matchup relies more on the ADC's, as Khepri is very dependant on them to actually make difference. Matchups are polemic.

Yes, I know that the upper purple ward is rarely used, but I have to point out all the possibilities.

Quoted:
the middle purple ward is the junglers/middles job.


I really hope that people someday realize this. "But you are the support, you are the one who wards". I only remember of one match that the entire team bought Wards. Support life is sad.

Quoted:
The support should focus Gold Fury and Long Lane early on, and GF and FG later on.


I'm going to add a "Further Information" so that people are aware of this.
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Branmuffin17 (83) | December 15, 2016 10:38am
I personally didn't comment any further on the Ward start...I know that's Bernard's preference, but I'd already hit upon that in the Ymir guide. Definitely not how I'd ever start, but that's me, and I respect the preference...can be helpful for early ganks, but you definitely lose out on early sustain in lane.

That purple ward spot is absolutely a good late-game spot, and I'd say that even when we all play together, sometimes we all forget to ward...and I'm sure it's more common when playing solo queue.

Pris absolutely knows Athena, so would probably default to his opinion. I'd say in the early game, she might use her dash to help clear wave, but as the game progresses, it's probably pretty common for her to save it for escape/chase than initiation...walking right into a teamfight to use Confound is pretty common.

I also totally forgot about the mana regen thing. I just don't play Crocky...that's a good point for bypassing Meditation to get another relic.
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ThePerfectPrism (41) | December 15, 2016 7:09am
Then your source is pretty wrong, lmao. Shell is the go-to relic againts early-game duo lane compositions.

A good Athena won't dash in, unless the teamfight has been going on for a while. She'll most likely walk to the people, already grabbing a sort of "Taunt" but it would be called "FOcus", in which her allies can start moving up, and then use Confound, to get extra damage in. If she dashed, she would be a sitting duck.

But we're talkin about support matchups. In a matchup, you want to see if your god has any overalls againts that god, and not the team composition. Khepri can stop Charge Prey with 2 diferent ways, and applies a defense shred on enemies.
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Technotoad64 (23) | December 14, 2016 12:04pm
Grammar Nazi powers, activate!
Bacchus gets outplayed by Sobek at early game because he probably won't be leveling his Chug before levels 3/4, and then you can easily use Charge Prey on him, putting he on a bad position.
*him
Blessing of the Nile is not one of the best passives in the game and is not a game-changer or something like that. Altough, it does its job alone and you don't need to worry about it. The extra protection is nice and will help you to keep fighting.
*although
Level this ability thirdly. Yes, it may do more damage than Sickening Strike does, but it doesn't provides any healing or debuff like your 3rd ability does.
*doesn't provide
Sickening Strike does a lot of things. Along of damaging your enemies, it decrease their healing and heals you! Remember these things before using it, because it has a lot of uses. Don't understimate the healing you receives from it because it is actually a good amount and you will need it to compensate for your lack of health.
*along with
*it decreases
*underestimate
*you receive

Lurking In The Waters may not do insanely amounts of damage, but it still slows enemies and help zoning. Be sure to use this ability on teams and/or squishies for maximum usefulness. Don't use it anytime you want because it has a fairly long cooldown. Oh, and you can use this to escape from upcoming CC and/or protect you against high-damage ultimates such as Vulcan and Poseidons' ones.
Level this ability whenever you can because then it provides even more damage and slow, helping your team in a plenty of scenarios.

*insane amounts or *insanely high amounts
*helps zoning
*incoming
*Poseidon's
*plenty of

Initiate with Charge Prey, then turn around and use Tail Whip behind your enemy to deal damage and to knock up, and then use Sickening Strike for dealing more damage and maybe heal you or debuff the enemy. Use it for killing isolated enemies.
*to deal more damage, or *for more damage

("for [verb]ing" indicates function, while "to [verb]" and "for [noun]" indicate motive. I think you're communicating motive and not function, because of the words "maybe" and "or", because Sickening Strike always has the function of healing and debuffing, but not always the motive of healing or debuffing.)
initiate with Lurking In The Waters, then use Tail Whip and Sickening Strike for healing you, damage the enemy team and to debuff and knock up them. Use it for teamfights.
*Initiate
*yourself
*to heal, *to damage, and *to knock them up,
or *damaging, *for debuffing, and *knocking them up

(see above, and it should be consistent between motive and function)
Watcher's Gift is a must for any support, either for agressive or defensive ones. You could also buy Mark of the Vanguard for early tankiness, but then you would rely on kills and on clearing minion waves, thus, making farming harder for your ADC.
*for both and *and

("either [word] or [word]" means "the first thing but not the second thing, or the second thing but not the first thing". Also, "thus", although it sounds cool, is past tense. Since you use "making" instead of "makes", it can be omitted entirely.)
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Bernardozomer (2) | December 14, 2016 12:54pm
Hi, Techno.

First of all, thanks for the comment. English is not my mother language, so sometimes I commit these errors. I will be correcting all these.

Quoted:
I think you're communicating motive and not function, because of the words maybe and or, because Sickening Strike always has the function of healing and debuffing, but not always the motive of healing or debuffing.


Yes, I am talking about the motive there.

I hope that you liked the build apart from these typos.
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Technotoad64 (23) | December 14, 2016 1:17pm
First of all, thanks for the comment. English is not my mother language, so sometimes I commit these errors. I will be correcting all these.

I'm most likely going to be adding more. Also, I'm partially doing this to study for English mid-term exams.
Yes, I am talking about the motive there.

Throughout the whole thing? If you are, that simplifies things a bit.
I hope that you liked the build apart from these typos.

I do. I think I'll try it out during the "all gods are available" thing.
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masterricu (8) | December 14, 2016 12:08pm
But bacchus can just flop back over without taking much minion damage. And if sobek missed, he puts himself in a bad spot with no escape. Overall Id say its a fair fight.

Ares on the other hand has a hard time against sobek. No mobility on his own, so if he gets plucked its all ogre. Ares is more late game focused anyway. Sobek is early game. They do different things to help their teams in different ways. But strictly speaking of laning, sobek wins.

Thats why you see ares way more in arena and assault rather than cq.
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Bernardozomer (2) | December 14, 2016 1:34pm
While Ares, a god with no mobility, is pretty much dead when pulled, if Sobek fails to hit Charge Prey, then Ares can chain-flame him to death or use his ultimate.

The results may change late-game, but i focus on the laning phase (mostly) because then you can quickly snowball (not to mention that most games end mid-game or even before)
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Branmuffin17 (83) | December 14, 2016 12:38pm
@ricu, I wrote more on my reasoning on the Bacchus/ Sobek matchup in a separate comment below...curious on your thoughts about the whole explanation.
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Chesusthesodak | December 14, 2016 9:05am
I just wanna say that I love your build. Brobek is definitely my new favorite Support/Solo god. Also thanks to this guide I'm gonna be going "tick,tock,tick,tock" every time I ult. I was just wondering if it would be possible to add a small solo guide to Killer Croc. But aside from that this guide in general is very thorough and precise.




;(
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Bernardozomer (2) | December 14, 2016 9:35am
Lol, thanks! This is beautiful to hear.

And yes, I will be eventually adding a Solo build, I just need a few more testing ;)
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Branmuffin17 (83) | December 13, 2016 3:30pm
Hey Bernard,

Looks good...items generally make sense but I would suggest showing at least one example of a complete build.

Like the Peter Pan references.

Like also how you describe purchasing items 3 & 4, to help with his aggressive nature while still focusing on D first...though you might even open up options a bit more...if you get Urchin first, and you're rolling over the enemy, you might go aggressive for the 3rd item (e.g. Void Stone or Dynasty Plate Helm as you'll be even more dangerous fed. Just a thought there.

Not sure how good Blink is for Sobek. Personally I'd never get it on him, but that's me...as an alternative, I'd probably consider Wrath as a potential 2nd relic.

Finally, on the gameplay side of things...I'm thinking Sobek gets the upper hand, at least early laning, on Bacchus...

And you mention never rotating early game...but I'd argue you might want to if you get an early rotating enemy Support. Might not happen often, but you want to keep your options open...better strategy description there is to stay early game with ADC unless the enemy Support rotates.

Anyway, good job...hope others can provide some feedback and opinions too.
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Bernardozomer (2) | December 13, 2016 3:50pm
Hi Bran, glad to see you here.

I normally list a complete example build in the Items sections, but maybe adding one up there would be good.

I'm glad you liked all the Peter Pan thing :) (I could also use this title on a Chronos' guide, LOL).

Yes, I think you are right about the fed thing. I will try to add it to the guide whithout being too confuse.

I myself wouldn't get Blink on him too, maybe only if I was fed because it is very difficult to actually make good use of it on him. Altough, I need to cover all possibilities so that people can choose it. I don't like to have much "Core" items.

I'm not sure if Wrath would be a good relic... I mean, it is free area CC, but I don't know how good it would be on him. I will be testing this out.

Hmm... I don't know why you think it, but maybe you are right as you know more about Bacchus than me. But I would like to know why you think it. Matchups are the most difficult part for me.

Yes, you are right about the rotating thing. I will be updating that.

I'm happy to see that I haven't made much beginner mistakes like I did on my Ymir guide, Yay!

P.S.: Oh, I have one question... how did you made your signature (that one with all your guides)? I tried to make one for me with my (two, lol) guides, but it didn't worked...

P.P.S.: When I submitted my answer I saw you just had updated yours... Now i actually replied about somethings, LOL.
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Branmuffin17 (83) | December 13, 2016 4:15pm
Alrighty, let's see.

I say Wrath for the objective securing potential...Gold Fury and Fire Giant specifically. Not so much for the CC.

The reason I feel Sobek has an early advantage over Bacchus is for multiple reasons. Firstly, consider that, early on, it's questionable if he'll be building up his drunk level, at least at level 3/4. Even if he does, you can easily stop the CC it provides via Belch of the Gods. And although it helps his tankiness a bit, it doesn't provide any other damage by itself. So early, he's got 2 threatening abilities to your 3.

Second, again, if he Belches, you can interrupt and throw him...that'll likely put him behind you, sandwiching him between you and your ADC. This means he'll probably use his Belly Flop to escape, or perhaps just to hit you as he moves back to his side.

If he uses Belly Flop to initiate, your throw and Tail Whip will put him in a baaaad position. Know what I mean? That's why I say Croc wins early. Late game Bacchus has more damage potential, I think, but that's more teamfight anyway so individual matchups are less of a focus at that point.

Um...my signature is a bit complex...I used columns and whatnot...I just copied it in code for your reference:

Bran's Signature Code
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