Smite Item: Witchblade

Smite Item Witchblade

Item Details

Witchblade

Cost: 800 (2050)

+50 Physical Protection
+15% Attack Speed

AURA - All enemies within 55 units have their Attack Speed reduced by 20% and their Physical Power reduced by 30.



Item Discussion

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1
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GameGeekFan (42) | May 9, 2016 1:25pm
Ahhh memories...

Funny how this got me to be interested in Smite.

Also, kindve useless comment tbh, let them check for themselves and see the horror.
2
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Technotoad64 (23) | May 9, 2016 9:46am
The thread below is comprised entirely of rage and math. Don't scroll down if you value your sanity.
1
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Devampi (85) | May 9, 2016 1:51pm
The math is usefull however if you value your sanity get out now
1
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iReauxbot (10) | May 9, 2016 11:09am
Technotoad64 wrote:
The thread below is comprised entirely of rage and math. Don't scroll down if you value your sanity.

I should have listened. I should have listened ..dammit
1
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GameGeekFan (42) | September 1, 2015 10:47am
Devampi wrote:

nah most of the calculations aren't that hard (at least if you have a basis understanding of math) and most of the tiem I do recommend a calculator. There are really simple calculations and hard ones. but most are really simple as long as you know the formula

(e.g. the titans bonus stats formula is x=3p+t
with x being the multiplier you need to add for each stat.
p=amount of phoenixes alive
t=towers alive

after you get x you just do the titans base health (I believe 8K (see word of thoth for this too)) + scaling Xx and that will give you the titans health (I recommend looking up the book of thoth it's linked in theory crafting I believe)

I do wanna know who the dummy is (my guess is actually me XD) I'm curious XD


Nah not you. I think its completely obvious to everyone except that person in denials
1
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Devampi (85) | August 31, 2015 1:46pm
nah most of the calculations aren't that hard (at least if you have a basis understanding of math) and most of the tiem I do recommend a calculator. There are really simple calculations and hard ones. but most are really simple as long as you know the formula

(e.g. the titans bonus stats formula is x=3p+t
with x being the multiplier you need to add for each stat.
p=amount of phoenixes alive
t=towers alive

after you get x you just do the titans base health (I believe 8K (see word of thoth for this too)) + scaling Xx and that will give you the titans health (I recommend looking up the book of thoth it's linked in theory crafting I believe)

I do wanna know who the dummy is (my guess is actually me XD) I'm curious XD
1
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GameGeekFan (42) | August 31, 2015 10:26am
Oh I did, and the it looks hard as **** to do these type of calculations. The whole argument thing amuses me. Cause I only see one person being the dummy here.
1
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Devampi (85) | August 31, 2015 10:01am
Setolino wrote:

So if i sometimes start a toxic comment, iam the *******.

If Subzero baits or make toxic comment like bigot, nobody says anything, i see how it works :).

Sub is one of this persons that hide their toxic behavior behind his writestyle, and if somebody calls him out of his ******** he did over the past years, the person that calls him out is the *******. This is just pathetic. This wont be the last and it wasnt certainly the first time sub reached his goal to make somebody leave.

Since this will not change anyway and iam now the *******, i just gonna piss off, and delete my ****.

Iam done with this site.


You wanna know the reason as everyone is used to sub using all those words (and nowadays it's a lot lot less if you ask me as I still know sub for commenting with at least 1-4 times (in a short comment) calling someone an idiot or something else).
I don't know what you exactly mean with his ******** in the past but I assume you are talking about his LoL vs Smite comments/smite hate. On this it's mostly a So What it's his opinion. I like MOBA's doesn't mean I can Make someone else like it too.

But the big difference between you and sub is in most of the cases sub brings a/his point to a discussion, while most of your comments have been more direct provocations, being more noticeable as (talking more about the early times fights between you and sub started) they didn't add anything except provoking someone. And if you did got asked for an argument you either dodged it or as in this case make a half finished argument (at least this is how your arguments feel most of the times once in a while you do have some good arguments) addressing only the AS debuff instead of also addressing the power reduction (as the power reduction is a bigger part of the item IMO)

well goodbye

p.s.
Just a something small I noticed with god builder AS growth isn't simply base x(1+As increase) as with cupid according to godbuilder I get 1.58 AS (on a lvl 20 cupid with boots and soul) but if I recalculate this I get on a 1.68. while if I taker lvl 1 base attackspeed + lvl 20 total attack speed I do hit the 1.58. meaning that the AS of lvl growth is also considered bonus AS (like items) and everything (should) scales of the lvl 1 AS (cupids case 0.97)

So yeah seto you are right that sub had a mistake in his calculations and yes we have my fault of taking over his calcs (as I said laziness on a late evening) but also meaning you made a mistake with using base attackspeed of the current lvl.
Also even the word of toth is a bit vague on this as it doesn't say if it's base base attackspeed (the number the god starts with on lvl 1) or if it also calculates the AS scaling.

I do hope someone reads this though
1
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Setolino (18) | August 31, 2015 3:29am
So if i sometimes start a toxic comment, iam the *******.

If Subzero baits or make toxic comment like bigot, nobody says anything, i see how it works :).

Sub is one of this persons that hide their toxic behavior behind his writestyle, and if somebody calls him out of his ******** he did over the past years, the person that calls him out is the *******. This is just pathetic. This wont be the last and it wasnt certainly the first time sub reached his goal to make somebody leave.

Since this will not change anyway and iam now the *******, i just gonna piss off, and delete my ****.

Iam done with this site.
1
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Devampi (85) | August 31, 2015 2:20am
And I'm going to part ways with these discussion again as arguing with someone who uses a lot of fallacies (with ad hominem being the most used one.)

all in all seto in my eyes you are one of the toxic SF members as a lot of comments made by you on the forum are provocations that end up in discussions/arguments like these.

And I believe you are really confusing me for all4 as last year it was dac, pentar and some others vs all4 and sub. I kept myself out of that one mostly.
1
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Setolino (18) | August 31, 2015 1:16am
Its from Krett Calc. As i said with Athena lvl 20. Iam not the one starting to argue with unnesscary Picturs, Devampi are you the boyfriend of sub, since you defend him in every situation ? I remeber you did it a year ago aswell.
1
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Devampi (85) | August 30, 2015 11:22pm
Setolino wrote:

Witchblade:
(Athena Level 20)
Physical Effective Health: 5725
Magical Effective Health: 3700

Sovereignty:
(without Aura)
Physical Effective Health: 6453
Magical Effective Health: 4536

And btw Devampi your friendo used his calc with Attack Speed from items added.


I don't get how you get an 800 EHealth increase as I don't see any calculations from you. or how we got on the fact that magical mattered in this discussion as we are talking about physical.

And I don't get the friendo used attackspeed from items as some comments earlier he let you see it was on the way how smite calcs AS (from basic attack speed). ( Witchblade removes the AS from a hunters Ninja Tabi)

Same counts for your I'm smug pic thingy where you just say it isn't true . aka YOU ARE REALLY DOING BAD AT ARGUING NOW. As you don't show up with an argument or give your own calculations.

all I had to say and yes I know my calculation is faulty as sub probably used DPS after protections mit and then you need to take raw HP instead of Ehealth
1
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Subzero008 (111) | August 30, 2015 8:48pm
Setolino, is it too much to ask for you to stop being an *******?

Edit: Argh, I need to redo again.
1
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Greenevers (100) | August 30, 2015 6:27pm
Yeah that sucks, happens to me from time to time as well. Best we can do is remember to copy it somewhere else while doing a long post.

So the thing is you can't just calculate for the DPS reduction because you can't ignore the fact that Sovereignty gives health. When calculating the DPS, you include the aura debuffs and what not. Then the mitigated damage is calculated with damage and protections. From that, you can get a damage mitigation multiplier by comparing the mitigated DPS vs the unmitigated DPS which can be used in the effective health formula. I could be wrong but I can make sure.

Oh and Weakening Curse has been nerfed to 65% so healers are going to be completely OP.. I would use KrettCalc for DPS and EHealth calculations because there's a lot of errors I'm seeing from everyone including me... Only downside is that I don't think Soul Eater is updated.
1
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Setolino (18) | August 30, 2015 5:43pm
Quoted:
So it's clear that in regards to personal protection, Witchblade is a superior item for personal tankiness against physical autoattackers, by a significant amount.


Which isnt true.
1
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Subzero008 (111) | August 30, 2015 5:05pm
Calculating effective health will get you nowhere, because this isn't about effective health, but the effect of enemy DPS. Of COURSE Witchblade has less effective health, DUH - it has less protections AND no health.

In a normal item comparison, protections and health together can be calculated with effective health, but in this case, we are comparing the effects of a debuff and a buff - effective health does not account for the loss of enemy DPS, and will not work.

Also, my bigger reply was lost due to a cache error and I feel like screaming. But to summarize, Witch Blade does more to reduce enemy DPS on both hard and soft targets, using two slightly different tank builds (-300 health, -10 armor, and -20 MR) and two different Cupids to act as targets, compared to Heartward Amulet.

There are other factors, like specialization against basic attacks, the different passives of the different builds, buff vs debuff, etc, but those are frankly impossible to avoid, because you can't mathematically calculate builds to precise stats.
1
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Setolino (18) | August 30, 2015 3:18pm
Well you make a wrong assumption right there, the most played mode is Conquest, in conquest are magical gods aswell, so you need to find a good balance, Witchblade doesnt give that. Your personal Tankiness would be pretty **** if you go Witchblade second item. Or third item in a logical matter. Iam not argugin btw that it might be a good pick to make Vamana/Bellona/osiris and so on tankier, just that there is a reason why you didnt pick it up to early. And i have tried it alot of times. I was one of the person that went with Winged Blade rush into Witchblade rush back in 2014.... but you know it is 2015 and things changed.

Witchblade:
(Athena Level 20)
Physical Effective Health: 5725
Magical Effective Health: 3700

Sovereignty:
(without Aura)
Physical Effective Health: 6453
Magical Effective Health: 4536

And btw Devampi your friendo used his calc with Attack Speed from items added.
1
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Devampi (85) | August 30, 2015 2:28pm
So I'm going to take subs dps calc and greens EHealth calculations (Ehealth/DPS) but there is probably the flaw of sub picking the dps after protections (meaning there is a flaw in it but because the time window would be large anyway the difference wouldn't be too big between these (as the 50 damage reduction takes away all sovs bonus health in 4 sec))

with sov you die in 17.84 sec
with witch you die in 20.11 sec

So sry seto for your Personal tankiness witch is better then sov (and well the reason you get sov is mostly because the aura's are good for other peeps tankiness)

sometimes I do wonder how quick/much you read as otherwise you wouldn't have missed the point of personal tankiness and as I said earlier you should be more careful with your assumptions, as you wouldn't have assumed immediately that sub didn't know base attack speed gets used.

I myself would get witchblade against AA reliant teams (or physical focused teams)

sry for some laziness it's late here
1
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Setolino (18) | August 30, 2015 12:17pm
:DDD I didn´t take my time, yes because unlike you i play the game, and know that everything THAT I wrote was right. And i assumed you were wrong because you said Witchblade is a better item for support than other core items for support, which is wrong, and better players/calculators/coaches already figured that out while you are still in 2013 and wondering what the **** is going on.
1
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Subzero008 (111) | August 30, 2015 11:59am
Setolino wrote:

Because Attack Speed Debuff scales like **** in this game, it just works against the BASE Attack Speed you have at your current level
You didn't read before posting, didn't check your own personal calculations before posting, or just assumed that I was wrong and you were right before posting, or most likely, all of the above.

1.292 basic attack speed x (1 + 0.15 + 0.20) = 1.7442 attacks per second.
1.292 base x 0.15 reduction = 0.1938 reduced
1.7442 - 0.1938 = 1.5504 total attack speed
(I used 1.292 x (1 + 0.15 + 0.20 - 0.15) and it worked, thank you very much.

"On Witch Blade, assuming they are affected by the aura:

AD reduced to 258.8.
Attack speed reduced to 1.5504."

In your haste to insult and attack me, you have made a fool of yourself, for I DID reduce with base attack speed.

Setolino wrote:
That is btw also the reason nobody with a brain buys Enfeebling Curse, it´s just not worth it.
Or maybe it's just because 100% healing reduction in a massive AoE that's a significant debuff to their entire team, mages included, is just completely overpowered.

Nunu has 25% reduction in a massive AoE and it is his ultimate, and it is considered one of the strongest ultimates in the game, because of that debuff. Attack speed debuffs scale just like attack speed, both based off of base attack speed, so it does not "fall off" in the sense that it is less effective as the game goes on = it reduces attack speed more and more as time goes on, even if the actual percentage doesn't change.
1
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Greenevers (100) | August 30, 2015 7:56am
Cupid's base attack speed is .97(+1.8%). Cupid level 20 AS is 1.29 and with those items it's 1.58. Assuming you missed The Executioner, his AS would be 1.77. As Seto said, AS debuffs and items only work off a god's base attack speed. So it would be lowered to 1.62 AS. Or if you left out The Executioner on purpose, it would be 1.43.

Let's continue with your build though since I don't want to make assumptions. Cupid would have 293 in hand damage because you missed roughly 300 mana from level 20 Cupid. I didn't check the crit calculations cause **** crits but uh 1.85*293*1.58 = 856.43 raw DPS and 1.85*268*1.43 = 705.5 raw DPS.

Mitigated DPS -

Sov: 856.4*100 / 255 = 335.8 DPS (335.8/856.4 =.42x mitigation multiplier)

Witchblade: 705.5*100 / 245 = 287.9 DPS (287.9/705.5 = .41x mitigation multiplier)

But, Sovereignty gives 200 health. So to see which is a better physical protection item, you need to compare physical effective health.

Sov: (2490+200)/.39 = 6405 effective health
Witchblade: 2490/.41 = 6073 effective health

Then Sovereignty gives an aura for magical protections and HP5 which is much more valuable as an item in general than Witchblade. Just as a physical protection item, they're pretty similar but Sovereignty has around 400 more effective health and is 100 gold cheaper. Witchblade also gives the almost useless stat on a guardian of attack speed. It's a better suited item on auto attack based tanky warriors like Osiris, Bellona, or Ravana.

lmk if I did the damage mitigation multiplier wrong. If I were you, I'd use KrettCalc 2.0 for more accurate calculations but I think Soul Eater isn't updated on there because the numbers are slightly off.
1
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Setolino (18) | August 30, 2015 4:00am
Because Attack Speed Debuff scales like **** in this game, it just works against the BASE Attack Speed you have at your current level, it doesn´t include the Attack Speed you get by attackspeed items. And yes Smite is **** LoL is better... :D

That is btw also the reason nobody with a brain buys Enfeebling Curse, it´s just not worth it.

So yes your knowledge of Smite is once again pretty much wrong just the same way you thought Towers deal True damage xD

Witchblade is a decent 4/5/6 item you sometimes can pick off but not as useful as a Winged Blade or Mail of Renewal (after next patch).
1
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Subzero008 (111) | August 30, 2015 3:12am
It's impossible to tell how much each stat is worth in this game due to the lack of basic items like in League, but this item is honestly so incredibly powerful I don't know why more people aren't using it.

Have some calculations.

You are a nameless tank with 100 base armor. You can choose between Sovereignty and witch blade for personal tankiness, against an enemy Cupid with Transcendence, Soul Eater, Ninja Tabi, Deathbringer, and Rage, at max level.

1.292 basic attack speed x (1 + 0.15 + 0.20) = 1.7442 attacks per second.

81 base AD + 50 + 30 + 35 + 15 + 20 + (1760 x 0.03) = 283.8 attack damage.

Assuming, for simplicity's sake, that you have 55% crit chance:

You'll get a crit 5.5 out of ten times.

2.5 x 5.5 + 4.5 = 18.5, or 1850% of your physical power every ten basic attacks, or an average of 185% of your attack damage every basic attack.

Average damage per second: 1.85 x 283.8 DPA x 1.7442 = 915.757326 base damage per second. Rounded to 915.

On someone with Sovereignty, it'll be:

915 x 100 / 255 = 358.823529412 per second. Say 359.

On Witch Blade, assuming they are affected by the aura:

AD reduced to 258.8.
Attack speed reduced to 1.5504.

258 DPA x 1.85 x 1.5504 = 740.00592 base damage per second. Rounded to 740.

On someone with 145 armor of Witchblade, Cupid will deal:

740 x 100 / 245 = 302.040816327 damage per second. Say 302.

57 DPS reduction, or 15% damage reduced in comparison to Sovereignty's armor.

So it's clear that in regards to personal protection, Witchblade is a superior item for personal tankiness against physical autoattackers, by a significant amount.

Too tired to put in calcs for abilities. But I suspect that Witch Blade actually reduces the DPS of abilities far more than people think, and that it might actually be a better aura item than Sov.
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