Dissecting Smite #1: Oversexualization, Stereotyping, Double-Standards, and Other Misogyny in Smite

when in that pm have i insulted you fromt he point on ward in which i said that i will not make accusations and would be less aggressive in my posts.

since that, not at all. so that is a false statement.

Warning: This is a long post.

TL;DR - You cannot prove that video games cause real-world sexism. There's nothing wrong with sex or sexualisation. Women are allowed to be sexy if they wish, and are allowed to represent themselves as they choose. Hi-rez is allowed to represent women and men as they choose, as long as it fits the lore in some way. This is not an issue at all. There is a difference between reality and video games. There is a difference between women and Goddesses.

I come back to this. I almost fell off my chair, 10/10 sub you do entertain. Lets get to business.

To preface this I'm a genuine Eclectic Pagan, so I know one hell of a lot more than most people about Ancient Gods and Goddesses. I'm also an undergraduate History student that studies Modern and Ancient History, as well as some Archaeology topics [specifically Religion and Ritual.]

The main premise of your argument is that Smite does not treat women well. As you don't mention men in this, one can assume that you implicitly believe the women are specifically being represented worse then men comparatively. Linked to this, you must naturally believe there is some real-world implication to how this game represents women in terms of equality, as that is a one of the arguments you use. There is a strongly underlying ideological bias in what you've said, as it's pretty clear you're a Feminist of some description.

We'll come back to this later. I'll break down my rebuke as you've presented your argument:



Over-sexualisation happens to both men and women in the real world and in video games. This is a fact. Is either a part of a broader social issue? No. Video games are their own culture, in which it is most often explicitly made clear that X video game does not represent reality in any way, even when parallels are drawn. Reality is obviously different by it's nature, so basing your argument that video games are bad from irrelevant real-world examples was a poor place to start. Focusing these examples only on women was also misguided, as it's demonstrably true that men also face double standards in many regards, as well as legal discrimination in the Western world. [But that isn't relevant here, it's just a by-product of the irrelevance of your own argument in this section.]

There has not been a single statistically valid study that has linked video games to any real-world changes in worldview or perceptions. Just as video games do not make us violent, they do not make us sexist. They do not affect our reality at all, beyond our own time. Unless you have Academic evidence to the contrary, which I can bluntly tell you does not exist, then you cannot implicitly conclude that if X game is sexist, it will perpetuate or lead to sexism in reality. You have no basis for this implicit conclusion.



Your argument here is that Smite over sexualises it's Goddesses comparative to other games in the same genre. The difference is that Smite draws its inspiration from the real world. You'd clearly be surprised to realize the sheer volume of deities that have been represented in a sexual manner, even when not linked to sex at all. Indeed, most Ancient beliefs held that the deities could take whichever form they wished, so artistically they could be presented as whatever the artist felt the deity represented, which is subjective in nature.

Moreover, sexualisation itself is subjective in nature. TMI: I'm gay, so I don't find any of the female Goddesses to be sexual in nature at all. But beyond that, you're assuming that all straight males have the exact same preferences and will find each Goddess sexy, which simply isn't true at all. Sexuality and preference is far more diverse than you're presenting it, which is a shame as I'd expect more for someone claiming to support equality.

What "some women" want is irrelevant. Female deities are not "some women," that is incredibly disrespectful. I actually reeled when I realized that you are comparing all-powerful female deities to modern human women. what even. Like either you have an incredibly low expectation of deities or a ridiculously high expectation for modern women. Either way, that is the most ridiculous thing I've read this month. Grats. Female deities are female [this is debatable - Theological debates over whether deities are human or even gendered, or simply represent themselves / we represent them that way] that is literally the only link between modern women and female deities. They aren't to be interchanged - they are entirely separate. To steal tumblr speak - #triggered yo.



FML. These are video game characters sub, not conscious women. The female deities themselves have not made that choice. But if they had, who the hell are you to put a quota on how many women would be allowed to do X, just because it doesn't fit your narrative? Let alone dictating how female GODDESSES should represent themselves. Sounds like your arguing to take agency away, rather than give it.



Most, if not all Goddesses have been represented in a sexual way at some point by somebody. Equally, many people don't view the Goddesses as sexual. I'm referring to both IRL and in Smite. People are more than sex objects. Even when they present themselves in a sexual manner, not everyone will see it that way or even care. Also, There's plenty of male characters that - when the lore fits - are dressed in a more sexy way - like Apollo, which you mentioned, Hercules, Chaac ect. It's simply the case that lore and artistic representations of females from the Pantheons Hi-rez have drawn from can be done in a sexy way, because traditionally many Goddesses were represented in that way.

I would actually LOVE to see more sexualised males [all of the ****!] One of my favourite characters is Apollo for that reason. Equally I'd love to see more elegant or well-dressed females, which is one of the reasons Chang'e is another of my mains. But I would NOT love for Hi-rez to break from lore just to cave to thought police. I hate the fact that more males AREN'T sexualised in Smite, because by rights they absolutely should be. Why should they reduce sexualisation - when as you point out many deities have been represented as naked? Should it not then be that Hi-rez should simply be adding more sexualised male Gods to balance things out?

But linked to this, exactly what is wrong with male or females being presented as sexy? Want to know a fact? You're alive because of sex. Want to know another? Pretty much everybody on earth is alive because of sex. That's alot of sex. Sex isn't wrong or demonic, it's entirely natural. So to is sexualisation, as humans are a sexual species. Representing males OR females as sexual is not inherently evil, or part of some evil plot to weaken X gender.



That's a fact. Sex does indeed sell - look at the porn industry.



The Goddesses in Smite are pixels. They are not real women. Hi-rez is not treating women like anything, because there are no real women in Smite. Indeed by definition there never will be, because not only is this a game, it's a game about deities. Women aren't deities. They're human, like males. Misogyny has nothing to do with this, because real women are not involved or impacted in any way by the female representation of deities in a video game that they probably don't even know exist.



Gods are the desirability of man kind. You're literally disillusional if you think most Gods AREN'T represented as beautiful, period. Beautiful is a desirable human trait. Deities frequently represent desirable human traits [there are exceptions.] Ergo many Deities naturally represent beauty. It's nothing to do with being shallow, it is an Archaeological and Religious observation based on the fact that the majority of deities are gorgeous.



Completely agree. Chang'e is beautiful, but she isn't sexualised. But what chang'e commonly represents isn't sexuality at all, she's a Goddess of dance. Elegance is her claim to fame, and Hi-rez did a fantastic job of getting that through in her model and abilities. But many female deities are BOTH beautiful and sexual, and there is an obvious link between the two [desirability.] Denying that is foolhardy and bluntly wrong.



I agree with you, that is a stupid argument. Although if a female deity is added to the game that in lore is ugly, I'd like her to be represented that way. A good example is dark Hel, actually. Variety is the spice of life, so I'd actually be quite happy if Hi-rez added heavier, uglier and more brutish female deities, it's simply a struggle to imagine where they'd find the source material for it.



Misogyny is 'Dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women' [Oxford dictionary]
You have presented no evidence that Hi-rez has a dislike of, contempt for, or prejudice against women. If anything, presenting the female form as attractive and desirable would suggest a love of women, not a hatred. Moreover - again - This is pixels, not real women. There is no link between video games and real-life sexism. Actually, there is also no real link between 21st Century Sexual Liberty and misogyny either.



Happens in every game, including smite, to both genders. You're foolish if you think the male deities aren't stereotyped and over-simplified too, because they absolutely are. Does Stereotyping suck? Yes. But it isn't appropriate to go into a long back story in the MOBA genre, so it's commonly done. Each deity has a memorable gimmick, one thing that makes them stand out and be remembered, because really thats all the flexibility a MOBA actually offers in terms of story-telling.

Also, women are allowed to enjoy cooking, baking, sewing, being feminine and all that jazz. Again, it isn't anyones place to tell women they're less valuable because they fit a stereotype, THAT is misogynistic. IRL women CHOOSE what they want to do, regardless of what you think about it. Of course, these pixels aren't women, but their gimmicks fit their real-world lore in some way, even if its played on as a joke.



You say women are over-sexualised, and then point out that there aren't enough women.

... Um?

Here's an idea. Maybe Hi-rez aren't sexists, and they literally don't care about the perceived gender of the deity. It's simply how the cards have fallen.



You pointed out further up that many deities fought and walked around nude.

They're deities. Do you think they care about suitability? By all accounts, hi-rez is incredibly generous in the clothing department on all deities across the board, as most of them were indeed naked, when fighting and otherwise.



1) This is not common across all pantheons
2) This is not common across all cultures that these deities are taken from
3) Most of the time these weapons were created by the deities themselves, and so it was one of the only items that could be used to effectively slay a deity.



They're deities. They don't care about how heavy something is, that is a mortal concern. If they can fight well nude, I'm fairly confident they can fight in anything.



You literally just debunked your entire OP by pointing out that women should absolutely have the autonomy to represent themselves however they choose, equally so Hi-rez should have the autonomy to represent male and female deities however they choose.

Also, deities aren't relevant to equality. They also aren't human, so stop treating them like they are, just because they're represented as gendered.



I don't care about what you like. Your infringing on freedom of expression and artistic freedom because you take issue with sexy female deities. That's your problem.



I knew this was coming. As all the way up in my intro, provide me an academic and verified study linking representations of people in video games to real-world thoughts. It doesn't exist. I can tell you that for a fact.



Even the biggest anti-rape organisation in America - RAINN - has flatly destroyed the idea that rape culture exists. You want to talk about rape culture? Let's talk about the fact that if a man is raped by a woman in the Western World, that isn't considered Rape despite it accounting for about 40% of all rapes outside of prison. Let's talk about prison rape, which btw the majority of the victims are male. Also, what does a de-bunked by Academics and Anti-rape institutions alike Feminist theory on rape have to do with Smite, or video games for that matter?



There are plenty of females in GamerGate, and plenty of males for that matter too, as far as I know. But if you want to get into technicalities, gays are way, way less represented in video games, and are indeed presented poorly if at all. They also face significantly more real-world discrimination across the board. But that isn't because of video games. Nor is sexism caused by or made worse by video games.



This isn't about Apathy. This is about you making problems where they don't exist based on your own ideological viewpoints that come across as incredibly bigoted and unbalanced.



Prove it. Literally, prove it. You'd be the first person ever to prove a correlation between video-games and real-world problems. As I've already pointed out, you have no studies to prove this because they don't exist.



Proof that deities exist. That was *****y. But I'd be lying if I said I was sorry. ;)

Wow. I'm at a bit of a loss for words. Good piece. +1

Dignity literally doesn't exist for goddesses.


From where do you think that HiRez' design team is mostly women? And Smite has been making oversexualized goddesses for a long, long time.


Just an FYI, the pics you put up look better than Smite's. And for the record, you did say that they ruined them a fair bit with those alt costumes.

And like I acknowledged in the What's the Point section, Smite isn't the worst, but nor is it the best. But it's still a problem.


Here's what I don't get. This video is old, and I specifically answered the video in the thread, but again, you didn't read it and are just jumping on the H8 Sub Train.

The video's message is basically: "Kali was naked in lore, so it's fine for her to be scanty. Same for the other goddesses."

I ALREADY ADDRESSED THE LORE DEFENSE. Are you intentionally ignoring that part?


You're an unpleasant person and I hope you actually leave instead of passive-aggressively taking jabs at me.

Also, All4Games and my own opinion differ. He seems to think that realism has to do with real life and stuff; I say that realism is referring to the "in-universe" real. For example, magic is realistic in the Harry Potter universe.


You are suddenly pleasant. Thank you.


Hypocritical, much?

I'm saying it isn't really an issue if it is labeled as a sexually explicit game. If it was, then that would be one of the goals. Unfortunately they don't do that. So I'm saying that I agree with you, because they don't label their game properly and try to deny the fact that it is way oversexualized.

So arrogant. I'm replying to him as we speak.

How sad. You keep saying how you respect me and want to leave this argument, and you keep hanging on like an obsessed fanboy.

How am I arrogant? Your the one who loses it with people who don't share your opinion!

I am in no way a fanboy. I think your a loudmouth arrogant prick, who happens to contribute a lot and has a good writing style.

The respect I have for you is in no way built from your personality, which I find repulsive. It is only built from the skill you have in writing; even when in some cases is directed negatively at me.

You wanna know why I went into this post with a negative attitude? It is because this post is literally built to communicate how bad you think Smite is. If you're that butt-hurt about Dawngate being cancelled, then you seriously need to get your priorities straight.

Sorry if this too personal, but I had to say it.

Sub, I've heavily edited my post to make it more friendly and less aggressive. Just FYI, it has changed around abit.

Honestly, this has been building up for a while, but **** you. You straight up IGNORED the post that tore you apart so you could insult toast. Your method of arguing isn't to win with your points, it's to weaken other people. You attack others for questioning you on open discussion and simply disregard the idea of respect. Why should you demand any sort of civil response when you work off of insults and emotions rather than logic and reasoning. This post was, most certainly, made to villify smite. Why not make this an off topic thread about why you hate sexualisation? Why just Smite? This is getting personal but you asked for it. Your argument right now is consisting of picking on Toast, like a debate where you make no points and your entire speech is rebuttal. We get your opinion at this point, so defend it with reasoning and don;t hide behind a barrier of insults and anonymity. I'm probably getting banned for this, but I heavily dislike your way of discussion and quite frankly I don't care how many posts you've made you're acting like a prick. Where's the nice guy that made stuff like the insane jungling guide, that guy was awesome. All we get is an overly aggressive idiot who hangs out on a forum just to spread hatred. Sorry for being so blunt, I feel it had to be said.