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The Overarching Arena Guide (S5, Patch 5.12)

July 12, 2018 by Branmuffin17
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Branmuffin17 (204) | July 12, 2018 10:45am
Added some additional wording on builds here and there for options/alternatives, altered the Arachne build a bit, and changed the presentation of the entire section. Thoughts?
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boogiebass (11) | July 12, 2018 10:48am
Yes
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Branmuffin17 (204) | July 12, 2018 10:52am
Also mentioned you at the beginning of the guide.
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boogiebass (11) | July 11, 2018 6:53pm
I'd consider Warrior Tabi a potential first item for Odin since his bird bombs hit harder at the early game.

For Thanatos, consider Heartseeker instead of Titan's Bane if enemies aren't tanky and you need a bit of extra umph to kill something without using your ult.
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Branmuffin17 (204) | July 12, 2018 12:11am
I can only provide one example. I would also consider Warrior as you know from my Odin Arena guide, and in most cases it would probably be my standard choice. In this case I went for reinforced because it got a recent mini buff and I did call the build a tank rather than bruiser.

As for Thanatos, yeah that also works. Again, can only provide one example but I can add further comments. Just don't want the comments too be too complex. Good thoughts.
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boogiebass (11) | July 11, 2018 6:44pm
I don't like your Arachne build. My preferred build:

1. Warrior Tabi
2. The Crusher - I don't like Qin's Sais here. Enemies haven't built up health for you to utilize the passive.
3. ( Hide of the Urchin or Mantle of Discord or Magi's Cloak) || Stone Cutting Sword
4. ( Hide of the Urchin or Mantle of Discord or Magi's Cloak) || Stone Cutting Sword
5. Qin's Sais
6. The Executioner

Sell Warrior Tabi for Ninja Tabi

Of course, the defensive item is a flexible pick up (unless it's Hide of the Urchin), but I usually end up picking it 3rd or 4th cuz that's when I see the most focus.
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boogiebass (11) | July 12, 2018 11:22am
@kriega

In your opinion, Who has the more functional arachne build for arena? Me or bran? Brans build is in the guide itself, under the items section, physical god builds.
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Branmuffin17 (204) | July 12, 2018 11:43am
I like my build just fine, thank you. =)

Like I said, SCS is a great item, BUT...it's better if you're facing more physical threat. It's an example build, so I don't account for all things. Also, your build is more forgiving. Earlier protections are just fine, but it means you won't be doing as much damage. It DOES mean you can survive more, even if you make mistakes.

Depending on enemy comp and whatnot, I've gotten Hide of the Urchin as early as 2nd item.

My example build takes better advantage of Qin's passive at an earlier stage, which also pairs well with her passive, Predator. It also requires more awareness (only go in once the most threatening abilities are on CD) and helps if you have good tanks/CC on your team to help set you up.

(Also, I added a burst ability build for her as well.
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Branmuffin17 (204) | July 11, 2018 11:59pm
I'm actually okay with Crusher after Tabi. The flat pen will also help her ability damage which will be more important early game, and the AS will also help with Qin's. I'm also okay with SCS after that, but only situationally because the protection it provides is physical, and magical threats might be bigger. But I maintain that, high health or no, Qin's provides a higher DPS jump than any other item. I'd still build it after crusher. 5th is way too late for my taste.

In this case I'd also just start Ninja just to more simply set the build up for Qin's. But I still like my original build just fine. It's one example. But I appreciate the feedback and I'll probably adjust and get crusher earlier.
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Branmuffin17 (204) | July 12, 2018 12:14am
Also next time we play you're playing Arachne.
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boogiebass (11) | July 11, 2018 4:35pm
Pestilence isnt just a counter pick item, its a fantastic mag protection item. Phenomenal amounts of mag def and good amt of health. I find myelf picking this up more often than bulwark simply because most hunters and mages, and a few assassins, will build some form of lifesteal. From my personal experience, mages and assassins are the most played, followed by hunters and warriors, with guardians played the least. So in every single game, you're very likely to see at least 2 gods building some form of lifesteal.

Ofc, pestilence offers a fantastic counter to healers as well.
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Branmuffin17 (204) | July 11, 2018 5:10pm
"Great against magical damage, and specifically useful against enemy healing of all types."

Lifesteal is technically a form of healing, but yes, you're right, and I do always consider Pest to counter lifesteal builds.

Keep in mind also that pestilence is in the tank slash counter item grouping. It was never stated as just a counter item.
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boogiebass (11) | July 11, 2018 5:37pm
Ahh my mistake!
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Gulfwulf (11) | July 10, 2018 8:31pm
Any chance we can get an item section for this, Bran? I'm always struggling to figure out what to pick up on guardians like Ares and Kumbhakarna. Thanks.
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Branmuffin17 (204) | July 10, 2018 9:23pm
I might be able to do that. It's standard build stuff though, normal counter-building and whatnot is usually what I do. With Ares, I'm a bit more confident so I often go almost all auras...something like Shoes of Focus, Void Stone, Sovereignty or Gauntlet of Thebes, Relic Dagger (specifically for ults), Pythagorem's Piece, Pestilence or whatever else is needed...not necessarily in that order.

But for ***bha, I would concentrate on CDR along with Void Stone as a standard, with late counter items.

If I were to organize the items or present it in a specific way, how do you feel it would be most helpful to you? How I present in my individual god guides? Like I do in my Assault guide? Target only very specific topics like counter-building? There are a LOT of items, and a LOT of playstyles that I often change things up depending on my team's comp and the enemy comp.
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Gulfwulf (11) | July 10, 2018 11:50pm
I like how you have both general and specific guilds in your assault guide and I think those would help me the most: I would build Ares different than I would Kuzenbo or Kumbhakarna. Another thing I'm curious about is how different items stack up: e.g. Sovereignty vs. Jade Emperor's Crown. Things like that.
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BestMinionEver (69) | April 2, 2018 10:16pm
Haha.
I call him her and she all the time myself tbh :p
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Gulfwulf (11) | April 3, 2018 1:47am
He is pretty effeminate, isn't he?
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Branmuffin17 (204) | April 2, 2018 5:47pm
I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about. =) The "s"has a strike through.
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Gulfwulf (11) | April 2, 2018 5:30pm
So when are you going to correct Ne Zha's gender, Bran? I'm surprised BME hasn't taken you to task on it yet.
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Coleture | March 1, 2018 6:46pm
Nice guide. I think your putting WAY TOO MUCH emphasis on minions. Yes they are important, but not at the expense of your teammates. 99.9999% of the time the team with the most God kills wins. Far too often I see teams getting 1-2 gods picked off in 2-3v1 because the rest of the team is too busy killing minions to help. The opposing team continues to push and the rest of your team is faced with running to the base and letting the minions walk in or dying because of overwhelming numbers and the minions still walk in. So a team CAN NOT put too much importance on the minions. Let the minions deal with the minions when they see a teammate being overwhelmed, prevent the kill or avenge it, then go back to killing minions! Failure to do this WILL result in a lost match!
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xmysterionz (9) | April 23, 2018 10:30am
No, he is not putting too emphasis on the minions. They CAN REALLY MAKE YOU LOOSE. Check this blog post if you don't believe.
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Coleture | March 2, 2018 8:41am
You guys sound as if the other team is not killing minions also. You can't focus on minions while your teammates are fighting for their lives. I'm lvl 123 from arena only. I've seen time and time again, where the other teams warrior/guardian jumps in while your team is trying to clear waves, lock down one of my teammates and his team helps get the kill because my team was too busy killing minions to help. Then they go back and kill our minions. Now they're up on points. That's the winning strategy. You guys have people thinking minions are more important which is causing these teams to lose the match. It only takes one person to clear the wave and that's if your minions aren't present, otherwise the minions can handle the minions while the team prevents or gets the kill. I tell teams all the time, "Do the math, if you killing minions only and they're killing us and minions (no teams are just letting minions through), who wins?"
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Branmuffin17 (204) | March 2, 2018 10:29am
I guess it's just how the individual interprets my write-up? Because again, I'm not talking about killing minions when they're not in danger of hitting your portal. Seems like you're taking my discussion on minions to the extreme, where I say "kill minions, don't teamfight," which...well, I'm not. Not what I'm saying at all.

I do appreciate your feedback, don't get me wrong, but what I often see is that people get tunnel vision for teamfights and let multiple waves go.

Proper understanding of the mode is balance.
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Estidien (25) | March 1, 2018 7:09pm
Honestly if you ask me, Minions are the most important thing. And unless your team is really scattered you shouldn't see the issue of people dying in a 2-3v1. I've seen far too many teams crumble because they're letting minions through. Sure don't die if you can avoid it and dont just let your teammates die. but ignoring a wave in favor of saving an ally costs you more points than just letting the ally die.
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Branmuffin17 (204) | March 1, 2018 7:52pm
Yeah, sounds like the issue you're seeing are individual teammates going YOLO on their own. They they spam HELP HELP HELP because you didn't protect them from the entire enemy team, even though they're the best wave clearer and you were busy preventing the minions from making it to your portal =P

That said, the guide is meant to give main tips. Minions matter more than many give them credit for. But I also expect people to use common sense. If minions aren't being pushed by the enemy team and there's a big team fight, then of course I'd expect the player to help their own teammates... That should be a given, wouldn't you say?

But if one teammate is gonna die if you don't help them, but you could prevent a wave from getting to your portal, you get the minions. You're talking -5 if your teammate dies, but basically a -12 spread if you don't kill the minions.
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TheZodiacWolf (23) | June 22, 2017 12:30pm
You should list the scum bag try hard tactic, that I came up with 1 year and a half ago. I do it time to time with premades. Your whole team camps fountain, using these specific gods. Kuku for tornado wave clear, loki for minion wave stalling, sylvanis for pulls into the fountain, Fenrir for ulting them into the fountain and Ares for Beads burning. Never leave fountain and still get kills. At the last min, loki blinks and stealths to the last enemy minion and finishes the game.
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Tlaloc1050 (7) | April 25, 2018 5:20am
We need to try this please
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Branmuffin17 (204) | June 22, 2017 12:35pm
OMG I hate you and love you at the same time.
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TheZodiacWolf (23) | June 22, 2017 12:39pm
Never said it was fun for the people on the other end. :)
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Gulfwulf (11) | June 22, 2017 12:14pm
Where would you list Cu Chulainn? From what I've seen, he's easily A-tier when paired with a guardian or tanky warrior, but he doesn't do that well as the solo tank. That and he can very easily be played poorly. But when he's played well, he's a beast both literally and figuratively. Thanks.
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Branmuffin17 (204) | June 22, 2017 12:24pm
Oh yeah, I need to add him...I'm writing up a post on determining quality of a build...I'll see about doing that after.

I'm really not sure about him yet. He's mostly ability-based, regens basic "mana" to 25% and doesn't use all that much at a time, so he doesn't have to worry about that so much, which means that portion of his sustain is pretty good (great for Solo). He's got some wave-clear in his 1 (great for Solo). He's got an escape (great for anyone, but also functional for Jungle). He really needs to take hits to get his passive up (Solo warriors often take a lot of damage). He's got some control (great for Solo and Jungle).

But I think he's going to need some serious tweaking by Hi-Rez...you said he's A-tier when paired with a guardian or tanky warrior...but...part of what he needs is to be tanky...he needs to be able to soak some damage. So pairing him with another tank, not all that great, I think. At least, that's the way I understand him so far.

*edit* OOPS...this is a comment on the Arena guide...not Conquest, LOL. Ummm...yeah, this mode is probably a lot better for him. Since he doesn't have a ton of control, a main "tank" guardian type would be best to be around...yeah, at first guess, at least when utilized and built well, he'd probably be A-Tier. Sorry about mis-reading!
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Gulfwulf (11) | April 19, 2017 12:20pm
Are you planning on updating this guide to Season 4? We have new gods and a few have been reworked. Thanks.
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Branmuffin17 (204) | April 19, 2017 1:20pm
The guide itself is mostly unchanging at this point. If you'll note by the title, it was updated for Season 4, as of Patch 4.2. That said, the tier list needs a review, and the new gods need to be added in where applicable. I'll work on it. =)
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