So, I played Smite again

The standard ingratiating (read: suck-up) "not my fault" and the token gesture of "oh its not 100% Sub's fault" does not count as an apology (especially since that latter bit was just copying what I said earlier), so, no. He's still saying that he's blameless for everything, only spritzed with air freshener.

It's easy to deceive people by telling the truth. Stating a few obvious facts, like "it's not 100% anyone's fault," and "people are biased," is a good way to disguise that you're actually saying very little in a lot of words.

So do you guys love each other now?

My other personality does. ;)

For the record - and I'll have this stated publicly - to anyone dabbing me with the "toxic" brush then I firmly suggest you go back to the dissecting smite thread and read the differences between what I put and Sub and how we both phrase things. I'd rather people reported me with hard evidence than just implicitly assume I'm as bad and/or worse than Sub because I engage him in some posts.

Sub isn't wholly responsible for the arguments - it takes two to tango. Blaming him entirely for any argument is misplaced fundamentally. But he is entirely responsible for the tone of his posts and his own words, which naturally dictate how somebody is likely to react and respond. His vitriolic behavior begets further likewise behavior from other users. Although in my view I'm rather civil regardless of what Sub says, but then I'm obviously bias in that regard.

I'll personally be leaving this discussion here regardless. I look forward to your latest dissecting Smite, Sub.

*Throws pancakes at sub*

@Raventhor

Sorry, you're right. Asking for specific punishments and targeting specific people, etc, is out of place for a forum post. At that point in the conversation I felt I was 'on topic' but I realize that that's no excuse. In the future I'll just look for specific comments and such to report.

My first comment, sorry for my aforementioned post. Didn't mean to seem apathetic in the light of issues, and it was rude. So I apologize for that.

Second, This is becoming very quickly heated and very off topic, in my opinion. An april fools joke shouldn't go this far into aggression. I'd suggest everyone take a breather and do your best to not take everything so personally. If the topic goes on as it currently is, we will lock the thread and action will be taken against perpetrators of misconduct.

Third, if you have input on what punishments you think appropriate, it's kind of misplaced. If you have issue with a specific comment, report it, and you can state what you believe there, and I promise you each report will be looked at by multiple people in detail. But rallying against a person, or asking for specific punishments, is out of place unless in a report or in a pm, because all that does is create a greater schism. If you can't find a comment to report, then reflect on what you're angry at itself.

Fourth, as far as the actual 'debate' going on is concerned, I don't have much I can and/or want to say, but Sub, the tags you have in your blogpost are pretty straightforward, for anyone that knows what argument went on before, and I'd say a tad inciting in their nature. I'd agree that every argument requires two sides, and you aren't solely at fault, but the tags themselves *are* a pretty abrasive way to make a dig at someone.

Fifth, yes, Sub is not solely at fault in these arguments. But I'd prefer we have none at all. If you want to have a logical discussion, that's fine, but if you ever start realizing you're in an argument that's more on the people themselves than Smite (or whatever the thread is about), you might want to take a step back and reevaluate. We don't want a community with senseless arguments that are attacking your opponent directly, so don't be unnecessarily hostile with your statements. No one in an argument such as these is in the right, because you're egging each other on, leading to a cascade of toxicity. Worst comes to worst, just take your bow and exit the conversation before you're pegged with something bad, too. If you find what someone does is wrong, don't argue with them and bring yourself to fault, report them and we'll review it.

I don't think I have a sixth point, but I'm pretty sure what I've said is straightforward and clear. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me or a mod, and everything that has or will be in PM/Reports will be under review.

Now here's to hoping this gets back on topic and doesn't have to get locked.

You know, if I consistently bring out the worst of people, why on earth do I get the ban?

Let's say I'm a soulless megacorp that makes all of its workers work 12 hour shifts for minimum wage. Do you blame the just the workers for being insulting, irritable, and sometimes violent? Of course not.

But I'm not a soulless megacorp. That would imply that I am in a position of authority over those whom I bring out the worst of - I'm not. And I refuse to assume the bulk of the responsibility over something I can't directly control.

I mean, sure, I can be provoking and aggravating, but like you said, not at the same level of those other people. A forum debate is usually of equals - I have as much of a (possible) effect on them as much as they have on me, and if I can control myself to be less toxic than they are, why on earth should I get the ban?

Also, "contributing nothing to the game discussion" is so wrong on multiple levels - firstly, why not also ban MadDanny? Or HiFromBuddha? Or TormentedTurnip? They're either absent, or talk off-topic all the time. Second, I have been giving logical arguments in Smite-specific discussion. If you missed it, you'd see that on that recent Ares guide that I can't be bothered to link, I specifically gave reasons as to why the presented build was flawed.

I'm not even derailing much - seriously, how can you say that? Discounting blogs, I've commented on two things in the past week: The Ares guide and the "god similar to gangplank" thread. For the latter, you can see the exact moment where a post went completely off-topic, and that was angrytoast's comment, not mine. For the former, my first comment was a mixed bag, but anyone can see that it was about 65% commentary on the guide and 20% criticism of Smite/Ares, which is hardly derailing the thread. If I did do any derailing, in that thread, (which I did) it was responding to your comment about Ares and his "niche" in low-level play. I might have contributed to a thread derailing, but it's not fair to pin the thing entirely on me, and use that as a(nother) reason for banning me.

You're like a mini-Turnip ^^

Also, Zanestorm has a poop fetish?

While I'm not going to say that Subzero has been more toxic than some of the responses he's been getting, it has become apparent that pretty much every conversation that Subzero takes part in becomes toxic almost immediately. He consistently brings out the worst of people and often derails threads, guide comments, etc. Even if he argues logically and with reason, that doesn't excuse the fact that he's really been adding nothing to the community on this site aside from a lot of angst and distress. Honestly I think at this point that that's reason enough to either ask him to cease and desist or receive a ban.

I'll PM you the quotes. I'm going to assume Sub would rather it wasn't quoted en-masse here, so as a common decency I won't. Although his comments are still visible anyway.

What did Sub say that was so homophobic?

I actively encourage anyone with the motivation to do so to read through our discussion, I'm confident they'll find I didn't lie and that my stance and dealings with you were entirely reasonable comparatively.

I "ruined" your thread by providing a counter point that you got upset about? Good grief. The thread was closed because we got stuck on one boring point - studies - which when pressured for several days you finally provided, but were fundamentally flawed and often contradicted what you stated. It was also probably closed due to flaming - but again, who's fault is that? Again - I actively encourage people who care to read the thread and decide for themselves who - exactly - was being vitriolic and hateful.

The funny thing is I actually apologized to you - to try and get you to calm down - which you ignored. I tried talking to you privately - which you also frequently ignored. I tried getting moderators involved at multiple points to calm you down, like when you went insane and started making massive pm chains and being homophobic, which again, didn't work. I made a single post where I was as crude as you are constantly - which I edited before you'd even managed to respond AND apologized for both publicly and privately. One. How many did you make, sub? I lost count.

I'd LOVE to see where I told you to go and eat a **** from [Censored.] PM me or post here where that supposed "Censored" location is, as I have no recollection whatsoever of telling you to eat a ****. And, "literally now" too?! By the Gods I've been busy then, please show me this live footage of me recommending you eat a ****?! I clearly have M.P.D if that's the case. [The best kind of M.P.D, even my secret second personality knows whats up apparently.] /Joke.

Though, based on your homophobia, it certainly couldn't hurt you to broaden your horizons abit. /Joke before you even go there.

Oh and also - "I won't let you touch me ever again." WTF? Did I hurt your feelings so much with my argument you felt molested by my typing or something? I don't know whether to laugh or be concerned. I never touched - nor rest assured intend to touch - you or anything within your vicinity if I can help it.

********it I just can't stop touching the poop. Your the worst kind of addiction, Sub.